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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Sunday, March 9, 2008

Diamond in the rough

When Dusty Baker tours the minor league camp, he doesn’t just look at the players he’s heard about.

“They’re the ones who were high picks and got a lot of money.”

He looks for diamonds in the rough. He found one in Marvin Benard when Baker was managing in San Francisco.

“I couldn’t even see him in the cage. I just heard the sound of the bat,” Baker said. “I said, ‘Who’s that kid?’ They said he’s a 50th-round draft choice. He’s a filler. I don’t go for that. I said, ‘What’s your name, son?’ “Marvin L. Benard, sir. You know what initials are? MLB. I was meant to play baseball.’ From that day on, he was MLB.”

Benard went on to play nine seasons in the big leagues and hit .271.


at 5:12 PM Blogger Y-City Jim said...

It's Benard not Bernard. He sure didn't do much for the Giants in the playoffs.

at 5:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

He's not a very good player either. 1.5 decent years with the Giants, that's about it. Hopefully, he's not some standard for Dusty. Slow news day.

at 5:33 PM Anonymous Homer J said...

Uhhhh, anyone else concerned that his "Diamond in the ruff", was a confirmed juicer. I was a fan of the Dusty hiring, but comments about telling Dunn and Votto to hack at everything has me more and more nervous.

at 5:59 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

homer j: you'd prefer dunn to continue to stand there with 2 strikes and watch close pitches be called strike 3? he didn't tell them to hack at everything, he told them their job was to drive runners in, not lead the world in walks.

at 6:26 PM Blogger Doug Gray said...

Dunn doesn't look at strikes anymore than anyone else does. Dunn's problem is when he swings, he makes less contact than most. The numbers back that up. He was identical to the % of pitches taken as Arod and identical on the % of pitches taken that were strikes.

As for Baker's comments, I will be the last one to say I like him as our manager, but his comments weren't anything close to 'turn into Brandon Phillips and Vlad Guerrero (who do literally swing at a whole lot of stuff that isn't a strike)' it was more of a 'with two strikes, don't guess at a pitch, be ready to swing at anything close'. There is a huge difference in the two comments. Given what Baker has said in the past about OBP and aggressiveness, that specific comment was taken way out of context.

at 6:41 PM Blogger unblogger said...

anon 4:13

Benard had 1 excellent year, .396 OBP as a leadoff hitter, and 2 good years .359 and .342. OBP. He also was very solid defensively as the Giants CF for 6 years. If the Reds can get that out of just one of their 50th round draft picks, they'd do back flips.
Dusty took a player who was never going to see the majors, found a solid everyday CF for 6 years. That's very impressive.

at 6:48 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...


this is a really funny take on doc's article and dusty's managerial style

at 6:54 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

That clown at firejoemorgan.com is a blithering idiot and the fact you give him any credence is just as alarming. But I did hear he's a charter member of the "Get-A-Life Club."

at 7:08 PM Blogger Y-City Jim said...

Dispute the arguments of the guy at firejoemorgan.com rather than calling him a blithering idiot. He disputed the claims by Daugherty. Afford him the same decency.

at 7:40 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Warning: The firejoemorgan link leads to a post with strong language.

at 7:49 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was at the game Friday after Dusty told Dunn to be more aggressive. In his first AB Dunn swung weakly at a couple of pitches I think he normally would have taken. He struck out and instead of heading for the dugout, he went directly to the chairs beside the dugout where the coaches and manager sit. He sat down right beside Bake. After conversation of about 3 minutes, Dunn got up and strolled to the dugout. I hope Baker doesn't mess up a guy who hits 40 HRs a year and I sure hope he doesn't decide to give Jr advice.

at 8:19 PM Blogger Y-City Jim said...

Why is Baker giving hitting advice anyhow? I thought that was Jacoby's job.

at 8:20 PM Blogger redfuture said...

Dusty certainly does verbalize some flawed arguments especially about OBP, but I agree about taking 3rd strike fastballs down the middle of the plate. Have to admit when you see that on TV you feel like throwing a baseball through the screen. The one axiom that you always hear from blue-collar baseballers is that you should be ready to hit the fastball and adjust to the breaking stuff. At the same time I'm almost willing to say that the easy strike three is "Donkey being donkey". If he still delivers 40 to 50 HRs while doing that I might take it rather than risk messing him up. I remember what Bob Boone and Ray Knight did to him. This time around I think Adam is more mature and secure in his position on the team. So Votto might be the one to worry about. If Baker says boo Joey has to jump. Hopefully Adam will be able to advise Votto about how much credence to give someone trying to change what has been successful.

at 8:25 PM Blogger Y-City Jim said...

Interesting in light of recent discussion:


at 8:38 PM Blogger Doug Gray said...

anon @ 5:54,
That 'clown' has a great job (writer for the TV show The Office). The fact that he has a differing opinion of you doesn't make him some 'idiot'. Fact is, he is pretty accurate with a lot that he said.

Something that Doc conveniently forgot to include in his article:

WS Rings
Dusty Baker = 0
'Stat nerd/Computer nerd with his spreadsheets/fancy numbers that mean nothing' = 2 (in the last 4 years nevertheless)

at 8:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like our rotation SHOULD be:

Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Belisle, and Bailey. Even if Cueto and Bailey surprise to the upside, it's going to take some fundamentally solid baseball with the #1-#7 hitters all contributing with an aggressive stolen base approach and plate discipline.

The more I listen to Baker, the less I like him as a Reds manager, and I detested the announcement of his hiring but if he delivers a .500+ season then he will have done a good job here, and I disagree that his comments about hitting were either erroneous or potentially harmful to the players.

There's an element of gambling whenever you're at the plate with a 2-strike count and a close pitch is coming in--over-thinking at the plate is just as bad as taking the approach of trying to connect with anything close.

There's no quick fix for Dunn making better contact except different drills to sharpen his hand-eye coordination--you know, that same hand-eye coordination that makes him a genuine gold-glove contender.

While shoveling snow in gold-colored gloves...

at 8:42 PM Blogger redfuture said...

Y-City, thanks for that link. It was a great, great article. Brian Bannister might be the kind of pitcher you trade a stud prospect. What an impact he probably has on his teammates. He'll make an excellent pitching coach after his career if he wants it.

at 8:51 PM Blogger redfuture said...

I agree that Cueto could easily be the 3rd and even 2nd best starter in the rotation, but he must be held down to #4 this year. Reason being his innings should be kept in check a bit this year, 180 IP will be plenty for him. Once the playoffs start he can assume the 2nd or 3rd spot because of all the off days.

at 8:54 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I forgot the only reason the Red Sox won two World Series is because of Bill james. Had nothing to do with pitching. Had nothing to do with the ownership that paid through the nose for players. Had nothing to do with getting the two weakest NL opponents in the World Series in, well, ever?

But give Bill James all the credit for being a consultant. That's brilliant logic.

Stick to the minors stuff. It's an appropriate talent fit.

at 9:03 PM Blogger Fkdrad said...

John: True or not True?

The player called into the "principal's" office last week to be reminded about the proper way a baseball player should wear his cap, this week was called back in by the "principal" and told not to wear an ear stud(diamond,I believe)? Also,the rumor in the complex is that the player pleaded his case to the "superintendent", but was informed that the "principal" now calls the shots!

at 9:34 PM Blogger redfuture said...

fkdrad, is there any chance the aforementioned player will approve a trade to a more lenient organization?

at 10:08 PM Blogger redfuture said...

I wish the Washington Post had been on the ball like this in July of 2006.

The Washington Post reports that Shawn Hill received a cortisone shot in his right arm late Friday night. Hill has been feeling some pain in the arm after undergoing offseason surgery to decompress a nerve. "They injected it, and he had instant relief," general manager Jim Bowden said of the cortisone shot. "What that means, I don't know. We'll have to wait and see when he goes back on the mound."

at 10:14 PM Blogger tom dunne said...

Anon 7:54-

1) No one said Bill James was the *only* reason the Red Sox won two titles.

2) Complaining about logic after you've posted a straw man argument? You can't be serious.

3) Get an account already.

at 10:17 PM Blogger John Fay said...

True that Junior and Dunn got called in to Dusty's office. But it was two weeks ago. And it wasn't about appearances as far as I know. It was about leading by example, or at that what Junior told me when I asked about it for a story I'm working on.

at 10:32 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

When are the first big round of cuts coming?

at 11:10 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whew, the FireJoeMorgan thing was rough on Paul Daugherty, but man, he deserved it with that piece of junk article. He had to have written that at the last minute, just hoping to get something in for printing.

at 11:36 PM Blogger John Fay said...

They don't have to cut by any certain date. I thought they would have cut by now. My guess is tomorrow or Tuesday.

at 11:40 PM Anonymous wanderinredsfan said...

I agree with anon 10:10, the Daughtery article was 'junk'. Does anyone know why Daughtery has such a crush on Blanton? Give it up already.

at 12:18 AM Anonymous Sparky's Ghost said...

As an out-of-towner who grew up in Reds country and chimes in here now and then... I just wanted to extend my sympathies. You all are about to be subjected to the Dusty Baker era. And now, I see he has an ignoramus enabler in the Cincy press to help get him entrenched.


Basically, Paul Daugherty's article can be summed up as follows:

"I sure sucked at math in school, and this new performance analysis stuff makes me feel small and increasingly irrelevant. I sure am glad for this Dusty guy coming on the scene. He's afraid of it too, and that kinda validates me! I better talk Dusty up every chance I get. Ignorance may not be the right approach in the long run, but we can both stick around for awhile if we back each other up. Ignorance has to stick together."

His idiotic article comes complete with the obligatory alcoholic-beverage-centered endorsement (the irrelevant Scotch tangent). Yep, great to have a drink with. That approach sure worked well for choosing the leader of the free world in 2000 -- and it's going to work just as well here.

at 12:21 AM Anonymous Sparky's Ghost said...

By the way, is there a pool yet on what month Baker blows out Cueto's and Bailey's arms the way he did Prior and Wood's from his "old school" high pitch counts?

at 12:43 AM Anonymous Sparky's Ghost said...

And just my daily reminder that Joey Votto's OPS (not that the Baker apologists have any idea what that stat means or how relevant it is to scoring runs) during his September callup topped anything Johnnie Baker put up in all his years in the bigs. Small sample size of course, but he was also just getting his feet wet. His "approach" is fine, and let's pray that Baker can scrape together the sense to let the kid play prior to his customary ten years of seasoning a youngster on the bench.

And 5:48 Anon - the piece at firejoemorgan was excellent. Thank you.

at 2:43 AM Blogger Doug Gray said...

Anon @ 7:54

Didn't claim they were because of Bill James, but you can certainly bet that those championships were won in part, due to the understanding of (sabermetric) statistics. The Red Sox, while having a ton of money, also are one of the more friendly sabermetric teams around. They employ many 'stat nerds' including their own GM.

It is funny how teams all across baseball are buying out these 'stat' firms so their stats are no longer available to any team but theirs. The teams that aren't doing so are going to be playing with half a deck very soon.

at 3:13 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...


at 5:06 AM Blogger scoe44 said...

I have said this once and i will say it again, None of you will be happy with any manager we get to lead the reds. Heck when Naron took over people calleed for his head after the first game, and now people are calling for bakers and the dang season has not even started. Give the man a chance to manage the team. I bet if the reds are .500 or heck even win the division everybodys tune will change and say how great a manager he was to lead this team, and if they dont then everyone will say we should fire him right now. Let the season play out we have just as good a chance as anybody else has in teh centreal division

at 8:11 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...


the long suffering Reds fans will be happy with results.

any manager that gets lucky enough to be here when we finally have playoff-caliber pitching (assuming we keep our playoff-caliber offense) will be greeted with adulation

if the Reds had insisted upon a "big name" manager aways back we never would have got Sparky Anderson, and no, I'm not a Dusty Baker fan, for this team at this time he represents to me the wrong approach and too much money, that should have been spent on a free agent SP acquisition.

Maybe keeping Hamilton and BUYING a starter would have been better?

Bruce in the minors again this year may not be all Dusty's fault but the Reds' collection of junk-heap OF talent in a blizzard of signing shows that the organization is still grasping desperately and wasting money needlessly.

I simply don't like Baker as a manager for this team.

But he's welcome to prove me wrong!

I predict the Reds never get above .500 under Baker's guidance.

at 8:50 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bruce in RF today...

If they are really giving Bruce a legit shot to make the team like they claims, it would be as a CF, cause they're not gonna put him on the bench, and Jr. and Dunn aoin;t moving, correct?

So, why are they saying they're giving him a shot when we're 2 weeks in and he hasn't stepped foot into CF yet?


I would appreciate it if someone would call Dusty/Wayne out on this the next time the topic comes up.

at 9:35 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bruce started in RF because they HAVE to give him at bats to show they are trying to give him a chance. However, he will not be starting in CF unless it is at AAA. All indications show that Bruce will be in AAA starting the year.

at 9:47 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

agreed. i just wish they wouldn't lie about it.

he seems to do such a solid job evaluating talent, i just wish he wasn't such a d-bag when it comes to fan/media relations...

at 10:01 AM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

no games have been played and you all are complaining already..pitiful what kind of fans are ya..be positive the team will be fine

at 10:15 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

good call jack, this coming from the guy who said the reds would be lucky to get to .500 this season.

at 10:22 AM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

I do agree with an earlier poster..it would have been nice to be able to keep Hamilton and buy some pitching..

too bad we are paying gramps Griffey 12 million a year..what a terrible wasteful signing..one of the worst..if not the worst, in the history of this franchise

Hamilton is "wowing" everyone in Texas..if he stays healthy hes a future Hall of Famer. With all his skills he does remind me of a young Mickey Mantle although he looks to be more powerful and faster

this team should improve to .500 which is remarkable .. sorry i wont respond in the future to any anons or long distance fans

at 10:28 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"no games have been played and you all are complaining already..pitiful what kind of fans are ya..be positive the team will be fine"

and minutes later...

"too bad we are paying gramps Griffey 12 million a year..what a terrible wasteful signing..one of the worst..if not the worst, in the history of this franchise"

follow your own advice jackie boy...

and the only way hamilton gets in the Hall is if they open up a wing for "guys who wasted away their talent and productive years on crack"

at 10:38 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

at 10:39 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actuallie for Jack/Julie he was being pretty posityive anonymous 9:28, most of us feel bad about the money that is being paid Ken Griffey

I dont know if Josh Hamilton will ever compare to a Mickey Mantle but lets hope he overcomes whatever issues he may hacve so that he can show us how great of a ballplayer he is.. We sghpuld not make fun of others diabiltys

Kevin in Ft. Mitchell

at 11:13 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Reds are terrible when it comes to how they decide to allocate $$$$ - they frequently piss away money on long term contracts to over-rated players.

That's the primary reason I think Krivsky is a big fool and the Reds will NOT return to over-.500 quality for awhile.

Combine that with their refusal to commit to young talent. Bruce should be our starting CF, period.

I really dislike the current Reds owner and front office, nearly as much as I dislike the overpaid and over-rated Dusty Baker.

About the only good thing I have to say about Reds management is: BRENDAN PHILLIPS.

Okay, so they haven't traded Votto or Bruce. Yet. So that's good too.

But really, they're a bunch of clowns who have so far mostly managed to waste much time and money on such things as Ellison, Stanton (utter waste of $$$$), Fogg, Coutlangus, Affeldt, Hairbrainston, Patterson, signing then giving away Cantu (still pisses me off), Mercker--the list just goes on and on and on...

It's a merry-go-round of washed up old players that we don't and won't ever need.

What we need is to give the ball to the Cuetos and Baileys for an entire year, and see what they're made off.

I doubt Fogg makes the team. Affeldt gets to be an emergency starter in the 6-spot, while we hope that Belisle and Arroyo stay healthy along with Harang, Cueto, Bailey--not a bad 5-man rotation if we'd just give them the season to get in a groove and compete.

The Reds front office are too gunshy and panicky and conservative regarding young players.

Papelbon, Zimmerman, Gordon, Braun, Joba Chamberlain....other teams play young players or players with short amounts of Minor League time, why can't the Reds simply realize that either way, it's a roll of dice, so why not just gamble on BRUCE, VOTTO, KEPPINGER, CUETO, and BAILEY for the entire 2008 season?

If the Reds did that, they'd give the kids badly needed confidence, and it would probably work well.

at 11:19 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to see what Jack was saying about the Griffey trade back on 2/10/2000. The world knows that any team would have jumped on the opportunity to sign KGJ at a reduced price of 12.5 million a year when Seattle offered him 20, and the Reds gave up next to nothing. Hindsight with the injuries is 20/20 but nobody predicted that. The only thing they could have done differently was perhaps offer a shorter contract, 6 years instead of 9 but that might not have flown with KGJ. Anyone pretending that they didn't like this deal is a liar or a fool.

at 11:28 AM Anonymous wanderinredsfan said...

Again with the Hamilton-Mantle comparison!! Pretty sure this joker never saw Mantle, and thus cannot make his 'speed and power' comparison. And Hamilton as a future HOF!! Hilarious! Hamilton has yet to play a full season, and yet he is comparable to the best outfielders to ever play the game! I don't condone humour towards disabled people, but this guy obviously needs more intense therapy while surrounded by padded walls. Please give us all a break and keep your 'man-crush' of Josh Hamilton to yourself! Its annoying and tired.

at 11:34 AM Anonymous someguywholives10minutesfromGABPandattends15-20gamesaseason.doesthismakehima"true"fan? said...

10:13/10:19 anon's,

I agree whole heartedly with your post.

And comparing someone with less than season of MLB experience to Mickey Mantle is about the most inane thing I've ever heard.

at 11:45 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...


at 11:53 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff Brantley suggested last week that the drugs and their damage have probably rendered Hamilton into more of a 35 year old physically than a 26 year old. It will be interesting to see how his career plays out.

at 11:53 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff Brantley suggested last week that the drugs and their damage have probably rendered Hamilton into more of a 35 year old physically than a 26 year old. It will be interesting to see how his career plays out.

at 12:04 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Was that the well renowned Dr Jeff Brantley or the Mississippi Cowboy making that diagnosis?

at 12:09 PM Anonymous mgarner543 said...

Why is everyone complaining about the Griffey signing? Nobody could have predicted all the injuries. He was only 30 years old and had gone for 49, 56, 56, and 48 homers and 140, 147, 146, and 134 rbis the four previous years. I know every Reds fan was overjoyed with the thought of having the best player in the game. Leave the man alone, he has given his all despite the injuries he has suffered and is in no way responsible for the Reds troubles.

at 12:48 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

adding the best player in the game to a team that came within a whisker of making the playoffs the year before? everyone i know loved the griffey signing at the time.

the failure came when they were unable to deal him after things went in the tank

at 12:54 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

I've decided not to comment to "Fan's who really have NO CLUE about what their talking about & have split personalities" & Like to "cry wolf" every chance they get.

So on that note, High Draft picks really mean nothing in the long run.Passion,commitment,drive,natural talent, skill, perstience, confidence, listening,observing, & just playing with heart can carry any athlete in any sport as far as he WANT'S TO GO.Pete Rose is a perfect example.

This Dickerson guy has my attention.

I guess I'm jealous of fans that get to go GABP more than me & sit on their rear ends eating stale pretzels & drinking schwag beer.Meanwhile I'm snowboarding/skiing 50 day's a year in the rocky mountains,watching the reds & bengals(Live when I can) just like everyone else & seeing the same game as they are, going to Rockies game,(I'm a baseball fan,not just a reds baseball fan) living amongst a healthy population of americans,(While most midwestern people are very obese,I'm surprised most of them can even fit in a seat at the ballgame) hiking,mt.biking, living in a city that is nice & clean w/o all the crime to explore in, hotspringing, and the list goes on & on.But your right,I do miss going to reds games(LIVE) that's why I fly home to see games with my families season tickets(That we have had for over 30 years) It was nice going to over 100 reds games for the bulk of my life,but my lifestyle won't allow me to live in a dungeon of a city.

So I guess that make me jealous.

at 1:08 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

at 1:24 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It appears that the Ken Griffey trade went into the tank the second year he was here. At the time it apperaed to be good but anyone knows that this trade has hurt this team for many years.I know even my father always got mad at the fact that we signed Griffey to a long term contract for such alarge amount of money, so I dont think everyone liked the trade

Kevin in Ft Mitchell

at 1:36 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Anon 12:08-Thank You for your opinion,I can now rest my case.(Learn how to spell & write before you start bashing,It look's better!!!)

I grew up in the East Side,Thank you.Phat,not fat.

Lay off the water,It's making you hyper.

at 1:42 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

Ken Griffey Sr. lived two houses down from my parents many years ago. Although I never had the opportunity to meet Ken Jr, that family was beloved in the neighborhood.

Conversely, and regardless of the initial excitement, the acquisition of Jr has damaged this franchise for many years. I wish him the best but his body has been failing him for a long time, he needs to retire

Colorado, if you hate our great city so much why are you on this blog. Seriously, read your posts its like you are in a love chat room looking for a partner Next time you are in town look Jack and I up, we are avid runners, we can see if you can keep us with us for 8 miles as we do daily

Julie RN

at 2:06 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

at 2:22 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Juilack-8 Miles at sea level is a joke to me.Try running 1mile at 9000ft.see if you can keep up or hike a 14er,then you can talk all you want,but until then leave your fantasies of getting off your couch just a fantasy

I love my hometown,but to say that the lifestyle there is great would be a lie(Cig smokers,obesity, Rednecks,racism,(On both sides)crime,conservative viewpoints, boring, drug addicts,heavy drinkers,negative attuides,pollution,city grime,a worn out landscape,nobody cares about the enviroment & people w/ split personalities)

Yea,That was reason alone to leave.Now, I see why your all jumpy,It's that water you drink.

If anyone can talk smack about my Hometown it's me,because I born there & grew up there.FYI,There are better places to live.

at 4:16 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

Jules brother lives in Denver, we spend alot of time there, running is not a problem

.. Beautiful state but I got some bad news fer ya Redleggs..in Colorado there exists obesity, people that smoke cigarettes, drug addicts , crime etc.

We have a circular route.. Kenwood, Blue Ash, Montgomery back to Blue Ash..bring your running shoes when you return for opening day..we both will give ya a 5 minute head start

at 6:34 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

I didn't say 5000 ft., I said 9000ft., That's a big difference (4000 extra ft.)Your full of it,That's all I Know. So,What part of Denver does your family live in & where have you run?

(If you ever have really been to Denver)
Next time you come to Denver(^),take a good look.I guarantee you, you will see less Fat people,drug addicts, & crime in Denver than Cincy.

at 6:35 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

I did mention I wasn't responding to people who have no clue about baseball & split personalities, I 'll leave it at that.

at 7:25 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

Julies brother lives in a small town(suburb) called Westminster, just north of Denver

Again, you told us you were coming back to Nati for opening day,,,bring your running shoes

Interestingly Colorado is the only western state that has been trending up specific to obesity guidelines 2006 obesity rate in colorado was 19. 5% vs 22% in ohio..negligible

check comparative crimes rates( Wikepedia 2006-2007 ) burglary, theft, arson, robbery, assault murder, were all higher in Denver vs Cincinnati, Rape was a 100 cases less

get your facts straight

at 7:51 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

The debate was Denver compared to Cincy,not CO compared to Cincy.

CO is very big.

Anyone can look up at town on a map.Tell me when was the last time you were here?

at 9:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

check comparative crimes rates( Wikepedia 2006-2007 ) burglary, theft, arson, robbery, assault murder, were all higher in Denver vs Cincinnati, Rape was a 100 cases less

at 11:21 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Trust me,You are safer in Downtown Denver than Downtown Cincinnati.OTR & Linn St., real safe.

Stat's are Stat's, Mr. "I don't believe in Stat's,see it w/ your own eyes" Guy

Stats Lie,I agree.

I would almost guarantee if you surveyed anyone visiting Denver from Cincinnati,They would agree Denver is safer.

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