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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Tuesday, November 27, 2007

No Cordero yet, and a question

The Reds say that there won't be a Francisco Cordero press conference today.

"Until we've got a deal, there's nothing to announce," Wayne Krivsky said.

That's not as ominous as it sounds. As far as I can tell, it's a matter of getting the physical done and crossing t's and dotting i's. Opening a spot on the 40-man is another thing that has to be done. I would guess we're looking at tomorrow for an announcement.

When the Reds do announced it, there is one big question to ask:

Who pitches the eighth? Jared Burton was lights out in that role in the second half of last year. But David Weathers was good in closer role. So which one pitches the eighth? My guess is Burton stays in the eighth. Weathers could add great value in the sixth and seventh. That and other issues will be addressed when Cordero is officially announced.


19 Comments:

at 2:50 PM Anonymous Joel said...

John,

Is it possible that they are stalling until after the Rule 5 draft? The 40-man is full and maybe they think they'll have a better shot at sneaking someone through waivers after teams fill their rosters with draft picks from the Rule 5 draft. Otherwise, who do you think they would drop from the 40-man?

 
at 3:01 PM Anonymous tom paine said...

Well, it's not too late to get out of it. As much as Cordero will most likely help in '08, this deal is virtually guaranteed to be regretted down the line, the question is when. It is incredibly rare for a closer to dominate for 3 or 4 years. After all, it was just in 2006 that Cordero lost the closers' job in Texas ... I hope I'm wrong, but a lot has to go right for this one to go right. Glad it's not my 46 million on the line.

 
at 7:17 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Goodbye, Gary Majewski. Considering all the competition for bullpen spots, 2 or 3 of wich will likely go to left handers (Bray, Coutlangus and Stanton {at least for the first month of the season}), they cannot possibly justify keeping this disaster.

 
at 7:41 PM Blogger Dave from Louisville said...

I would hope they leave Burton the 8th and have Weathers as the utility P that gets people out with inherited runners on base. That is what really killed us last year, it wasn't just the 8th, it was when Brantley or the Crafty Lefty would say "Well this sure a tough spot to come into, I guess we'll see what this kid's got." Inheriting RLOB and getting outs is just as high pressure of a role as a closer and I think that it is just as important. How many times did we need someone try to rescue a SP's win??? If he is successful is that role they should call Weathers the "Winsaver" or "Eraser" instead of "Closer."

What do you think John?

 
at 9:42 PM Anonymous Lexfan said...

I have to say Reds fans are typical fans. They complain when the team doesn't make a move or won't spend any money and then complain when they do make a move that they got the wrong guy or spent to much money.

In my opinion this was a great move. It now means the bullpen is much more solid. If the starting pitchers can give you at least six innings then Weathers and Burton can get you to the ninth.

 
at 9:54 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

john,

is it possible to get any info on what's going on in the world of reds baseball? no sources? how about a little investigative journalism man. come on give us something.

 
at 10:22 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The back end of Burton and Cordero is a no-brainer, but I really think Weathers is 2 minutes ago. Speed kills and Weathers has none. Personally, I'd love to see Reds give Homer the ball in the 6th and/or 7th innings, but since seemingly no one other than me this idea, I say try anyone who can consistently throw over 94. Face it, all of the Reds' relievers other than Burton are remarkably average ... Stanton wouldn't make the final cut for most high school teams. Let's change the channel this year, and find some power guys to compliment J-B.

 
at 10:29 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's hoping they continue with Burton in the 8th. Granted it was a half of a season,but man you had to feel good seeing him come out of the 'pen.

I wonder if this will lead to Stanton be released or Coffey moved. Any inkling John?
Woody

 
at 10:39 PM Blogger Aaron said...

There are also a number of games where you enter the late innings TRAILING, and when you play a textbook closer role you bring in an alternative... so Weather could pitch in close games where we are behind in the top of the 9th or bottom of the 8th or whatever... there are a number of possibilities... plus a tie game situation. It will sort itself out hopefully sooner rather than later. I am sure Dusty can handle it without necessarily demoting Weathers to the 6th and 7th. Remember the Nasty boys managed to juggle Charlton, Myers and Dibble without bruising anyone's ego, and this is hardly the Nasty Boyz.

 
at 10:54 PM Blogger John from Cincinnati said...

I would have to disagree with you John. I say leave Weathers at his natural position of 8th inning set up man until he shows us he can't do it anymore. The man has the experience of getting out hitters, and although Burton has great stuff, some more seasoning is in order in some less pressure packed situations. I expect the Reds to be in a pennant race this year and I want the most qualified/experienced guys out their in the late innings. Again, if Weathers falters then put Burton in as set up guy.

 
at 6:27 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can no one seriously not be talking about Mike Stanton getting kicked to the curb. This guy was a serious nightmare. Cut your losses and get him out of there. The guy was even worse than Majewski.

 
at 9:58 AM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

I really wish people would quit complaining. We got a guy in the closer's role that throws in the mid to high 90's, is known for his low ERA (career 3.29), and has a proven track record of 40+ saves. AND to top it off, he's decently young.

The comment about Cordero losing the closer's job in Texas...that's a moot point because he was traded mid-season (I believe). Guaranteed to be regretted? We no longer have Jim Bowden in charge of Eric Milton signings, pal.

 
at 10:45 AM Blogger Mark T said...

People forget that Weathers was not exactly a "lights out" closer - he often struggled to get two outs, often that third out ended a bad situation of his own making. Much as the guy outperformed the rest of a bunch of sore arms, I would not be comfortable with him as a firefighter. Best he comes in with the bases empty, as he does create traffic jams.

 
at 11:02 AM Anonymous jc said...

if there are no trades in the bullpen... they'll have to eat stantons deal because there won't be any room for him. bray and coutulangus are left handers with some pop. you have cordero, weathers and burton. thats five. salmon, coffee and majewski competing for two spots and seeing who can go long.
i like weathers as the earely guy. he has shown that he can go more than one inning if need be.
you still have some younger talent that can be packaged for a lower tiered starter if possible. keppinger, hopper, freel, hamilton if they think his body has been torn up too much, hattberg also in the expendable group.
another big question is whether they can get a bit better behind the plate.

 
at 11:04 AM Anonymous tom paine said...

Rob Dicken - hey pal, Dan O'Brien signed Milton, not Bowden. It's comforting to be a Pollyanna, but the fact is almost all big contracts are regretted by the team that signs them. Just go check out the list of the top 20 signings some time and you'll see one big car crash of regret.

Cordero is an excellent addition, it's just not a good deal. A team like the Reds should be developing their bullpen from within the organization, not paying top dollar. Of course, it's not our money and if they raise the payroll to the 90-100 million range like the top teams in the division, then they can afford such extravagances.

 
at 2:01 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I still see Tom Shearn as a darkhorse candidate for a long relief spot. I think he'd do a decent job. But, failing that, I see the bullpen looking like....

Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Bray, Stanton, Coutlangus and Salmon

I have a feeling Coffey will be traded. And I don't expect Stanton will be with the team past April. He'll likely go the way of Rheal Cormier.

Of course all this hinges on how they actually do when the season starts

 
at 3:07 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why choose? Use them according to the situation and batters they have to face instead of the inning. While it is smart to have one guy as the closer when possible, there is no real advantage to having strict roles for the other members of the bullpen.
If the Reds need a strikeout in the seventh, use Burton, if they need groundballs, use Weathers. If they need a lefty, use Bray.
Relief pitchers should be used by the situation, rather by the inning.

 
at 3:16 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am still waiting to hear when Cordero is supposed to be getting his physical so this deal can get finalized....

 
at 11:50 AM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

Rob Dicken - hey pal, Dan O'Brien signed Milton, not Bowden. It's comforting to be a Pollyanna, but the fact is almost all big contracts are regretted by the team that signs them. Just go check out the list of the top 20 signings some time and you'll see one big car crash of regret.

Cordero is an excellent addition, it's just not a good deal. A team like the Reds should be developing their bullpen from within the organization, not paying top dollar. Of course, it's not our money and if they raise the payroll to the 90-100 million range like the top teams in the division, then they can afford such extravagances.


You're right. This was exactly one year after Bowden got fired. I kept thinking he was fired in the 2004 season and not the 2003 season.

But saying that you build a closer from within the organization is absolute malarkey. What relievers within the past 10 years, with quality, has come from the Reds organization and lasted in the Major Leagues? We cannot build a bullpen specifically from within the organization...that's a near impossibility.


It wasn't a good deal? Have you seen the market for closers? Who else should we have gone with? Considering that the Brewers were only $1 million behind us in the bidding process, I believe we got a pretty damn good deal. Don't think for a second that if Mariano Rivera didn't return to the Yankees, Cordero would have been gobbled up in a heart beat for A LOT MORE money.

Regrettable deals? Like who? Barry Zito? What closer has been a "regrettable" deal for signing a multi-year contract?

The crap that is spewing from your mouth is atrocious! Unless you're being sarcastic by saying that they are not spending our money, then your comments are absolutely absurd! Where do you think the money goes from the baseball games we attend? The concessions? The merchandise sold? A LOT of the money pays for the players on the team, not the owner. The owner has to make money as well, or there's not a point for him to own the team.

So no, Tom. They ARE spending our money!

 
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