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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2007

Wrap up of Day II

Since Wayne Krivsky said what he said in the last post, I've talked to several people who say the Reds are serious about going after Erik Bedard.

Here's what Krivsky said: "I've never said we haven’t connected with the clubs with the higher-end pitchers. I’m looking at anyway I can to improve the team."

That's a huge admission from him. Ordinarily if you asked about going after big-name pitchers, he'd say no comment.

That doesn't mean te Reds are going to get Bedard. The Orioles are in position of strength here. But an offer of Homer Bailey, Joey Votto and another player might do the trick. (Jay Bruce is the guy the Reds just don't want to give up).

Again, it goes back to whether you want to play for next year or build for the future. Well, really, it's whether Bob Castellini wants to play for next year or build for the future. And given the Francisco Cordero deal, my guess is Reds are playing for 2008.

Tomorrow -- the last full day of the meeting -- could be interesting.


at 10:27 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is there any reason they cannot do both? Play for today and build for tomorrow? To trade Bailey and Votto would be a serious mistake. It would be on par with the Yankees trading Willie McGee for Bob Sykes. Or the Reds trading Paul Konerko for Mike Cameron

at 10:28 PM Anonymous Michael said...

The Reds have been "playing for the future" since the beginning of the decade. It's almost as if us Reds fans are conditioned to think in perpetuity that we're 3 years away...

if we add another ace to go with Harang, we are completely poised to battle for the division next season and after...let's get Bedard!

at 10:41 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man...I'm torn now. Knowing what it takes and how long it takes to build the farm system I have second thoughts about all this.

But for a chance to see October baseball here is enticing, but the long droughts between playoff appearences is brutal.

at 10:41 PM Anonymous MONEY MIKE said...


What does Bedard's current contract with Balt. look like? With that being said, what kind of money is he looking for when his current contract expires.

at 10:49 PM Anonymous John said...

If you ever get to talk to Wayne, tell him the educated Reds fans say no to trading two Bailey, Votto, Cueto, or Bruce in one offseason. Thanks.

at 10:53 PM Blogger redbeard said...

That is a WOW!

As they always say you have to give up quality to get quality. Do you think there is any way the Reds could get him without losing Bruce, Bailey, or Cueto?

John do you think a package of EE, Hamilton, Votto, and Maloney could get the job done?


at 10:53 PM Blogger cincikid said...

Thanks John,
Just wondering what Bedard's contract situation may be? I know that the O's was offering him an extension and I guess he declined propelling the O's to take offers for him this Winter. Bailey, Votto and another prospect seems steep even though I understand that if the Reds are wanting to contend next season they need to give alot to outbid the Yanks, Sox, and all the other teams bidding on these big name pitchers. I'd rather give Hamilton than Votto though. The Reds just have never warmed up to Votto. I guess they are worried about his defense.

at 10:56 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Evidently it's build for the future. Otherwise the Reds would
have made the trade the Tigers

at 11:14 PM Anonymous MONEY MIKE said...

I know its not new news, but this is Baltimore's perspective on the Bedard talks


at 11:22 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Bedard made $3.4 million last year. I believe he's arbitration-eligible. If the Reds dealt for him, they'd have to sign him long-term to make the deal make sense.

at 11:31 PM Blogger Dave from Louisville said...

I have seen mroe than once that the Dodgers are talking about Broxton, Kemp, and Kershaw for him. That would be pretty difficult to compete with Bailey, Hamilton, and EE, maybe????

If they could get him without giving up Bruce and keeping one of Cueto and Bailey. I think this is the year to win our division!!! Seroiusly the Cards are weak, we stole the Brewers closer, the Astros are rebuilding, and we have Dunn on a one year contract.

Go Reds!!

at 11:40 PM Anonymous BJC said...

Ummm, a 28 year old lefty who went 13-5 for a team that finished 24 games under .500? Went 3-0 against Boston and the Yankees in 5 appearances? Made a reasonable salaray?

I'll help Homer Bailey pack if need be.

at 11:44 PM Anonymous redhawk61 said...

John don't you see it as a better option if the reds go for Adam Loewen a younger lefty for the O's that would not cost nearly as much as Bedard. He still needs to work on control but he has basically has the same stuff as Bedard. He throws a low to mid '90s fastball that sinks a little with a very good curve. Both very much like Bedard. Scouts project him to be a solid #2 down the road. Now this deal wouldn't make us an instant favorite to get deep in the playoffs as Bedard would, but it would allow us to be competitive in our weak division and possibly win and make it to the playoffs plus we would get to keep the big four of Bailey, Bruce, Cueto, and Votto and we would be serious World Series contenders in '09. If we were in the Yankees situation of having three top pitchers I could see doing it especially with who they have to compete with in the BoSox. But in our weak division and with only two top pitchers, with trading Bailey we would still be down 2 pitchers and we would be giving up too much for something we can accomplish for much less

Please, Please pass this on to Kriv at the meeting tmmr

at 12:38 AM Anonymous AJS05 said...

Lets be honest if the Reds can land Bedard they have to do it. Granted Bailey and Votto are two future productive major league players, but neither of them are proven to perform at the major league level. This would give the reds a 1-2-3 starting pitching lineup geared for the post season we all know offense doesn't get you to the playoffs, plus the Reds still have plenty of it even if they trade Votto.

at 1:26 AM Blogger jtneuge said...

If the Reds traded Votto, Bailey, and not Bruce, but maybe Hamilton or Edwin, for Bedard, and lock Bedard up for 4-5 years, the Reds would be building for the future. They would have a rotation of Harang, Bedard, Arroyo, Cueto, and Maloney for at least the next three years and their lineup would have a lot of young talent. This team would be good for the next 3-4 years at least. As long as its not Bruce, pull the trigger Krivsky!!!

at 2:01 AM Anonymous JayTheRed said...

Get it done just don't include Bruce, Baily and Votto all in the deal

I also dont think the Orioles will have much interest in EE since they still have Tejaha at 3rd. Not sure what their outfield looks like either.

Personally I do almost anything to get Bedard and sign him to a similar deal that Harrang got and we have a great 1,2,3 and whoever is left from the pitching prospects gets the other 2 spots.

at 4:41 AM Anonymous Rick said...

Re: Redbeard's >"a package of EE, Hamilton, Votto, and Maloney could get the job done?"<

Uh, I think that's kind of nuts. You want to give up 3 starting position players and an extremely good prospect (Maloney) that is close to major league-ready and has a strikeout ratio similar to another Red named Maloney (Jim) for ONE guy who has a recent history of DL problems and will demand multi-millions to sign??
I reiterate - that's NUTS !!!
Bedard is very good, but I'm not willing to gut the lineup to get him.
I'd package Edwin, Alex Gonzalez, Freel, Drew Stubbs and the starter we got from the Nationals (Thompson?)and another lower level pitching prospect (or two)for Bedard and a Class A or Rookie ball catching prospect.

It would fit many of the O's needs. They are dealing Tejada and very possibly Brian Roberts so they will need big league calliber infielders to replace them.

Trading any of "the Young Guns" - Bruce, Bailey, Cueto, Votto or Hamilton would be a HUGE mistake. I can wait for these guys to develop. They are the nucleus of a decade-long top contender.

I know the "trade Hamilton" talk is suddenly popular, but he is a rarified superstar in the making. A Long-term outfield of Hamilton, Bruce and Dunn is something truly special.

Go with Harang, Arroyo, Belisle, Bailey and Cueto in 2008. Pick up a stopgap like Tomko or Clement. Bring up Maloney mid-season. Let the kids get experience and this could be an awesome team.

Don't mortgage the future for one guy that could be on the DL list much of the season and who will break the bank.

At least wait a year to make a move like this until Griffey's money is off the books.

at 7:30 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bedard is under team control for 2 more years. He is one of the 5 best pitchers in the game who was leading the AL by 60 K's when he got hurt. His line this year against the Yanks and Sox: 3-0 17 H 34 IP 2.35 ERA 45 K's 7 BB. He's a surly jerk to the media but an incredible talent. You should offer anyone besides Bruce for him.

O's fan

at 7:31 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bedard becomes a Free Agent after the 2009 season. If the Reds give up that much for a guy that has said he wants to sign long term with Toronto the whole front office should be shut down.

at 8:16 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trading Bailey, Votto or Bruce would be a mistake. The Reds will likely contend now that they have a bona fide closer, even without acquiring a #4 or #5 starter. Here's why. Arroyo will likely pitch better next year. Belisle will continue to under-achieve, but probably doesn't need to pitch much better than .500 ball for the Reds to win the weak Central. The #5 starter needs to be a veteran, but doesn't have to be a phenomenal guy like Bedard, just a good serviceable veteran with some moxy ala Carlos "Hi-Ho" Silva. What the Reds can't afford to do in 2008 is have guys on the 25 man roster who can't get it done (such as Mike Stanton).

at 8:49 AM Blogger docproc said...

We're talking about a 28-year-old lefty who led the league in strikeouts and could be a No. 1 on several teams. Get him for a package including Bailey and Votto, allowing us to keep and groom Hamilton, Bruce, and Cueto? You bet.

at 9:08 AM Anonymous Kurk from New Hampshire said...

It's hard to believe the O's (or the Reds) think Bedard is worth something like Santana. Bedard has had one good year, during which he threw only 182 innings. He's 28, so he's not likely to be getting better. If this offer is true, Krivsky must have lowered his opinion of Bailey. I'd keep Bailey.

at 9:27 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

There's WAY too much yap and hope for Bedard on these boards.

If you read the Baltimore, Washington and LA papers, the Reds are barely mentioned in the discussions because the Orioles are fielding better offers.

That doesn't mean a deal can't be struck, but the Reds are going to have to do better than Bailey, Votto and Hamilton, who collectively have 123 major league games.

And by doing better, I don't mean tossing in Monday night's trash, either. With the price of Santana in players and dollars, the Orioles are getting flooded by teams interested in Bedard.

With so many bidders, it might take four players, two of whom are major-league ready. The Reds really can't afford this outlay, especially for a two-year rental.

at 9:27 AM Blogger Rollie Fingers said...

Bedard is arbitration eligible for this year and next. He has not signed a long-term deal, but it's widely believed that he simply doesn't want to play in Baltimore. Plus, the Orioles need so many pieces that it makes more sense to trade him for a ransom.

As an Orioles fan, Bruce and Votto gets it done for me - and BTW, that package is better to me than the already-offered Kemp and Broxton from LAD.

There are enough teams in on Bedard (LAD, SEA, LAA, TOR) that we can afford to be choosy. You gotta make it worth our while. And don't think Beane will be any more accomodating on Haren.

Bedard would give you guys a great chance to win a pretty pathetic division without hurting your current lineup at all.

at 9:28 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The real "under belly" of all this is what youth/prospects that Castellini is willing to give up to Make Dusty happy by getting more veterans. Krivsky is in the last year of his deal and is now #3on the pecking chain.

at 9:38 AM Blogger Legion of Doom said...

Bedard's contract status:

2007: $3.4 million, 2008-09: Arb. Eligible, 2010: Free Agent

I'll take a proven lefty in his prime for prospects anyday.

at 9:38 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was trying to remember a time the Reds traded away a decent prospect who went on to be a top player while the Reds got little in return----and then I remembered: Jeff Montgomery!

The Reds sent Mongomery off to the Royals for Van Snider. Montgomery goes on to become one of the top relievers of the 90s. Snider gets a couple brief call-ups before getting sent to the Yankees with Tim Leary for Hal Morris. You could argue that this was a break even deal----you could even argue Konerko for Cameron worked out OK. But as far as immediate returns go, Montgomery for Snider looks like a bad trade in retrospect.

I would not want to see Bailey or Votto sent off to become superstars while Bedard makes his way towards elbow surgery one year and free agency the next

at 9:48 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree on getting EB. But why trade Hamilton? Josh has been amazing since we got him. Bruce is tradeable,and Bailey too, but no JH. I think Bruce, EE, and maybe Freel would get the deal done. We can't trade Homer because if we get Bedard, EB would be 2nd starter with AH 1st, BR 3rd,
HB 4th, and someone 5th. And if we give up Bailey we would have to find 2 more starters

at 10:54 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bruce = Frank Robinson

at 10:55 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

WHat puzzles me, same old Reds,why the heck didn't we go after MIggy Caberra 25 in april and Dontrel willis 26 in January?? They are young (as young as some of the prospects we have rumored to be offering) and would be super additions to cincy if we were willing to trade some of the people being banterede out there Homer, Hamilton,ETC... how do you leave that out there to go after just Bedard??

at 11:34 AM Anonymous tim w said...

How long have the Reds, and we fans, complained about not producing our own home-grown starters? Now that we are so close w/Bailey and Johnny, it would be a shame, mistake, crime, etc. I say keep them and put them out there come May/June.
Tim W

at 11:39 AM Anonymous MONEY MIKE said...

really? This seems to be out of the blue. Have you heard anything about the reds being interested in David Wells?


at 11:41 AM Blogger TravisG said...

Loewen would be a terrific option except for two things: He's not very good and he's recovering from a stress fracture last May in his elbow.

The Orioles drafted him fourth overall in 2002 and signed him to a ML contract, so they'd probably be looking for a more sizable return on that investment than is suggested by his performance and injury history (he avoided surgery in 2004 for a torn labrum).

I wouldn't turn over our farm system for Bedard, but he is worth two top prospects, for sure.

at 11:57 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would trade Bailey, Hamilton and Freel for the Orieol Cookie LP.

at 9:12 PM Anonymous REDLEG BFK said...

auekTrade Bailey and Votto but keep Cueto. I have heard he is gonna be better than Homer. Bedard needs signed to a long term deal for it to make any sense. WIN NOW!!!

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