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Reds Insider
From news of the day to news of the weird, John Fay provides a glimpse of what it’s like to cover the Cincinnati Reds

John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Sunday, March 16, 2008

Dusty has strong words on Volquez, Cueto

I asked Dusty Baker after the game the obvious question:

Are Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto separating themselves from the rest of pitchers competing for the rotation?

"You want me to say it or are you going to say," Baker said. "They're pitching like they belong along side (Aaron) Harang and (Bronson) Arroyo in the rotation. They're dealing. They came in ready to pitch. They played Winter Ball so they're ahead, not so much with velocity but with command. That's what you need. They're pounding the strike zone. If you walk people, you have no chance. If you get behind people, you have little chance.

"We need them."

There you have it: If season started today, the rotation would be Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez and probably Josh Fogg.


60 Comments:

at 4:12 PM Blogger docproc said...

Works for me!

 
at 4:12 PM Blogger docproc said...

Works for me!

 
at 4:19 PM Blogger Champ Summers said...

No arguement here. I like Affeldt in the pen and Belisle in AAA with Bailey. They both have some work to do.

 
at 4:28 PM Blogger Dan L said...

I think this looks like a pretty good rotation. Sure, the young guys will be up and down because of their inexperience, but overall it gives the Reds a better chance to compete in the central. If they have more good outings than bad we should be right there. Plus Baily gets more seasoning at AAA (remember he's only 21 everyone). I hope Dusty follows through with this.

 
at 4:29 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

I understand why Arroyo is No. 2 but we all know that he's really a No. 3 or 4. If Voltron has a good start, he slots better as a No. 2 because his hard stuff can be a tremendous counter for Arroyo's junk coming in a start behind him.

Harang
Voltron
Arroyo
Cueto
Fogg

Why Fogg at No. 5? He's had a good spring, so he deserves the roster spot, especially at just $1 million for a veteran starting pitcher. Plus, he's proven to be one of the best No. 5 starters in the game. Check out this study on Fogg.

Remember, the No. 5 starter slops over to face the opponent's No. 1 and No. 2 starters about half his starts. Fogg has been pretty good in this role.

 
at 4:36 PM Blogger gannfan said...

John - Very encouraging for Volquez, Cueto and the Reds.

Does this mean Homer Bailey starts the year in AAA?

And how do you view the bullpen shaping up?

gannfan
Chicago, IL

 
at 4:49 PM Blogger GlennG said...

But don't we WANT them walking guys to clog the bases up for the other team?

 
at 4:59 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Thanks Jack for the slow, monitored blog.

 
at 5:26 PM Blogger Scott said...

That is great news. I really hope that ends up being true. Cueto and Volquez need to be in there and I don't have a problem with Fogg as #5.

 
at 5:41 PM OpenID bohussey said...

Just back from Florida -- saw Cueto, Arroyo and Belisle pitch last week. Arroyo was in command the whole time. Cueto was phenomenal against the Phillies -- hitting 97 on the gun (sat right in front of the scouts) and 96 several times. Belisle was consistently behind in the count and got battered around by the Yankees. Can't wait to see Cueto against the Tigers lineup.

 
at 5:47 PM Blogger Mike said...

If Belisle doesn't win a rotation spot is he in AAA or the pen?

 
at 5:47 PM Blogger NVreds said...

I've heard this from other posters and I agree with it. I think volquez & cueto chould be split by fogg. Just because their styles are so similiar, it gives hitters in a series a different look. other than that, say hello to our rotation. say goodbye (for now) to bailey/belisle, they will be in AAA to start.

 
at 5:59 PM Blogger Maltybuck said...

GlennG said...

But don't we WANT them walking guys to clog the bases up for the other team?


EXACTLY! I've been wondering this all spring as he's been praising his pitchers for not walking people. What? Dusty, I don't understand. If you hate when your batters walk b/c they clog the bases, then you should love it when your pitchers walk people to help clog up the bases. And yet, you keep applauding your pitchers for not walking guys. I'm so confused. Dusty's been in the game for 40 years, shouldn't he have developed a more consistent philosophy by now???

 
at 6:00 PM Blogger Maltybuck said...

GlennG said...

But don't we WANT them walking guys to clog the bases up for the other team?


EXACTLY! I've been wondering this all spring as he's been praising his pitchers for not walking people. What? Dusty, I don't understand. If you hate when your batters walk b/c they clog the bases, then you should love it when your pitchers walk people to help clog up the bases. And yet, you keep applauding your pitchers for not walking guys. I'm so confused. Dusty's been in the game for 40 years, shouldn't he have developed a more consistent philosophy by now???

 
at 6:07 PM Blogger Dan H said...

Saw Volquez today at Ed Smith and came away impressed,especially facing the Phils top guns. Good command,quite a few first pitch strikes and a very good off speed pitch especially to the leftys..Wondering what he registered on the gun today. Looking forward to seeing Cueto on Monday. If Volquez,can continue to pitch like today, it makes the trade look that much better.

 
at 6:15 PM Blogger Dutch in Richmond, IN said...

Sometimes "star starting prospects" turn out out to be much better in the pen rather than as a starter. I'm not saying Bailey is destined to the pen, he is very young, but with his velocity he could great out of the pen. I am very happy with the staff below.

Starters
1. Harang
2. Cueto
3. Arroyo
4. Volquez
5. Fogg

Pen
1. Cordero
2. Weathers
3. Affeldt
4. Bailey
5. Bray
6. Burton
7. Belisle, Coffey, or Stanton (you pick - these guys can clean up the blow outs)

Also, I know Hamilton is tearing the cover off the ball and I hated to see him go, but Volquez has impressed me this spring. I got to watch the game on FSN against the Yankees and gave me some hope for the season.

 
at 6:15 PM Blogger Dutch in Richmond, IN said...

Sometimes "star starting prospects" turn out out to be much better in the pen rather than as a starter. I'm not saying Bailey is destined to the pen, he is very young, but with his velocity he could great out of the pen. I am very happy with the staff below.

Starters
1. Harang
2. Cueto
3. Arroyo
4. Volquez
5. Fogg

Pen
1. Cordero
2. Weathers
3. Affeldt
4. Bailey
5. Bray
6. Burton
7. Belisle, Coffey, or Stanton (you pick - these guys can clean up the blow outs)

Also, I know Hamilton is tearing the cover off the ball and I hated to see him go, but Volquez has impressed me this spring. I got to watch the game on FSN against the Yankees and gave me some hope for the season.

 
at 6:20 PM Blogger Ol' Timey Redsfan said...

I like this rotation.Put a works for me down as well.

 
at 6:25 PM Blogger Mark T said...

"But don't we WANT them walking guys to clog the bases up for the other team?"

Made my day.

 
at 6:28 PM Blogger Jeff said...

All the names mentioned by Mr. R are the same ones as on my list. While I do agree with his approach of breaking like styles of pitching, I'm not sure I agree with the order. I go with:

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto/Volquez
Fogg
Volquez/Cueta

I think having Cueto and Volquez in a major league rotation for the first time in their careers (Volquez has been there but with marginal success at best) is a great deal of pressure. Putting them even farther up in the rotation might be too much of a leap – at least at first. Plus they are unproven at the major league level. Start them later in the rotation and move them up if it looks like they are able to handle it. They could then possibly look for a way of pushing up the number five starter (V or C) and skipping Fogg when off days allows part of the rotation to be skipped. Just my opinion.

Regardless, I'm happy if these are the names in the starting rotation opening day.

 
at 6:28 PM Blogger Dan H said...

John,any word on Harang's outing today? Off to the Deck!

 
at 6:28 PM Blogger Brandon said...

I think the pen will shake up something like

1. Cordero
2. Weathers
3. Burton
4. Stanton
5. Coffey
6. Affeldt
7. Bray

until Stanton falls apart this year they won't eat the contract until they have to.

 
at 6:33 PM Blogger David Hartman said...

Griffey sucks. Oh wait, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and it's not my line, anyway. :)

I don't want Bailey in the pen. I want Bailey at AAA. He doesn't even have 70 innings at AAA yet. When he gets up to around 200 innings, it's time to start wondering if he's ready for the bigs.

 
at 6:42 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Harang went 6 1/3 v. a Boston A team. Said it went OK.

 
at 6:43 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Dang Mr. Redlegs. You bring it! I understand the Arroyo dropping back to #3, but very perceptive comment on Mr. Fogg (I like that name).

Dutch, the needs of Bailey and Belisle are best fixed pitching every 5 days in AAA. Also, there are better bullpen candidates, brandon has the pen nailed.

I hate the cubs

 
at 7:04 PM Blogger Showtime said...

Amen reaganspad. Only thing worse than the cubs are their god-awful fans.

John, I know on the grand scale this is pretty irrelevant compared to how he pitches, but I'm curious -- how did Volquez look at the plate? I believe Dusty was talking about how he never had any batting experience before, coming up in the AL and all. Anyway, glad to see he's been on top of his control and that his change-up is working for him.

 
at 7:05 PM Blogger Redleg city said...

John.....

Is Bailey fighting the coaches,who are trying to teach a few things he needs to know about major league pitching. I heard that Bailey is very stubborn...is this true?

 
at 7:12 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

Ill give this "cloging up the base paths" thing a shot.

When guys are walking alot, nobodys getting driven in. Also with a guy on 1st or 1st and second you vulnerable to the double play ball.

What Dusty means is hed rather see guys doubling, and "trading places" (meaning if you double witha guy on second,and he scores, youve traded places).

Dusty wants DRIVING IN RUNS

NOT walking, GIDP, pop up, strand runners etc etc.

Walks are fine, but nobodys scoring unless you walk with bases loaded.

Hope this helped

 
at 7:17 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

Diving in runs, not walking
ESPESCIALY in your name is Griffey, Philips, Dunn, or Encarnacion.

 
at 7:25 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

On the defensive side, Dusty doesnt want his pitchers to think that its a strikeout or nothing, thats how you end up walking guys.

His point is, use the defense, if you cant strike a guy out, get him to pop up or ground out. Dont walk guys, if they walk, your defense might as wll be in the dugout.

Hope this clarifys Dustys apparent inconsitancies (sp?) in philosophy.

 
at 7:52 PM Blogger SeeBee4 said...

Starters should be as follows:

Harang (Top 5 in NL)
Arroyo (Needs to regain '06 form)
Cueto (Sometimes best moves are the ones never made, Cueto/Votto for Blanton)
Volquez (Unhittable on Sunday)
Fogg (Will hold down spot while Bailey gets experience)

Bailey - AAA (Still young. Needs to improve command. Inefficient with pitch counts.)

Belisle - Bullpen (Many scouts have said he belonged in pen from day 1)

Affeldt - Bullpen

 
at 8:49 PM Blogger gannfan said...

SeeBee4 said...

(Sometimes best moves are the ones never made, Cueto/Votto for Blanton)

Amen.

 
at 8:53 PM Blogger tom dunne said...

On the rotation:
It really doesn't matter what order these guys pitch in, especially early in the year when there are additional off-days. It's rare that Harang will lead off a series anyway. Just getting the best five arms in the rotation would be a huge step for the Reds :)

On walks:
Of course Dusty would rather guys hit doubles than walk - we all would. But I'd also prefer that guys walk rather than swing and miss at ball four. Doubles are better than walks, walks are better than outs.

On Bailey:
He needs to be in AAA. His problem isn't simply how to get major league hitters out, it's how to command his pitches. He needs regular practice (AAA starts), not harder opponents (relief pitching to MLB hitters). The strike zone in the minors is just as small as it is in the big leagues, so let him learn to find the zone every five days down in L'ville.

 
at 9:01 PM Blogger redfuture said...

Unless I have reliable testimony that Belisle has lost velocity on the fastball, break on the curve, or deception on the changeup I believe his command will come around and make him a better option than Fogg in the final analysis. Yes, he needs to come through his next couple times out. They both gave up plenty hits last year and both did not walk many. However Matt had a lower walk rate and a higher K rate. Matt's career ERA vs StL is 1.38 in 26 IP and 2.12 in 34 IP vs Hou and 3.30 in 46 IP vs Pitt. Fogg is 6.97 in 60 IP vs StL, 6.75 in 85 IP vs Hou, 11.30 in 14 IP vs Pitt. They were very much the same vs the Cubs but Josh has been a lot better vs the Brewers. One will be in the rotation and other will be the long/spot man.

 
at 9:04 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Clogging the bases? Is that kinda like some like to clog the blog?

 
at 9:09 PM Blogger mentalmidget said...

The starting rotation is starting to take shape with 2 weeks to go. Looks rather solid. The 'pen looks to be the hard choices. Bailey to AAA. Belisle for mop-up or AAA. I've never believed Belisle to be a starter.

 
at 9:09 PM Blogger mentalmidget said...

The starting rotation is starting to take shape with 2 weeks to go. Looks rather solid. The 'pen looks to be the hard choices. Bailey to AAA. Belisle for mop-up or AAA. I've never believed Belisle to be a starter.

 
at 9:16 PM Blogger NVreds said...

Something no ones mentioned: Volquez is switching leaues, he pitched in a AL hitters park, that should lead to better numbers (unless you come from oakland, see: A's trading history)

Dusty's right and wrong

walk is good: No outs, no runners
bases loaded (obviously, a single is still better) ups pitchers pitch count, extends innings

walk is bad: runner on 2nd, middle of the order hitter, # of outs doesnt matter, lose a scoring chance or create DP situation (sometimes a IBB will happen)

another reason hitting in potential walk counts (3-1, 2-1, maybe 3-0) is you know a FB is likely, most major league hitters can hit a FB is they know its coming, especially if its not located well.

 
at 9:21 PM Blogger RedMan SAS said...

Age can no longer be an issue for the Reds. Who else on our current roster could replace Volquez and Cueto in the rotation? Go young and enjoy it. It has to be:

1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Volquez
4. Cueto
5. Fogg

Let's try to enjoy a rotation that does not have a John Smiley or a Jimmy Haines at the front! When was the last time we could be legitimately optimistic? Let's see what the kids can do.

 
at 9:30 PM Blogger mentalmidget said...

Regarding walks; I don't remember the numbers, but I did see this in the 90's. Something like 78% of lead-off hitters (in a given inning) that walk, end up scoring! Now that's scary!

 
at 9:34 PM Blogger firefly118 said...

EVERYONE LISTEN UP:

Volquez and Cueto....very nice and a real surprise, pencil them in. Enough about that, I have to get something out.

If I could promise you a MLB player in your line up, that could play the outfield with maturity and leadership would you take him?

O.K, you need more, here goes!
Lets say hypothetically his last 4 years avgerages were:

28 HR .350 OB%
80 RBI .510 SLG%
70 Runs
.262 AVG

Still not enough, well hypothetically lets say his last year was.

30 HR
93 RBI
78 Runs
.277 AVG

And just for good measure, he was hitting .280 with a .438OB% and a .520 SLG% this early spring season.

Wouldn't you as Reds fans say heck yeah, lets get that guy!!!!!!!

WELL GUESS WHAT? WE HAVE THAT GUY AND HIS NAME IS KEN GRIFFEY JR.

I am tired of everyone saying Griffey is done and hasn't done anything for us and isn't worth the money. Lets get rid of him and not resign him so we can move in Norris Hopper or Ryan Freel or Corey Patterson. What is wrong with all of you? Does everyone hold a grudge against him for being hurt......he can't help that.

WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE, NOR WILL WE FIND ANYONE TO FILL THAT SPOT WITH THE NUMBERS HE HAS PUT UP FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE ARE PAYING HIM.

Wake up!!! Put Bruce in CF and let him learn from the best to play that position and worry about real problems like pitching...

 
at 9:57 PM Blogger redsfan8557 said...

This is going to be a fun year at the ballpark

 
at 10:09 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

Not saying Reds batters should never walk, but with men on base, 3,4,5 should be driving in runners, not walking and leaving it to the 5,6,7 hitters to drive them in.

 
at 10:13 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

How many times have we sen Dunn take a walk with men on only for EE or Agon to GIDP or pop up or worse. Stranded again!

 
at 10:18 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

Put Fogg, who is an innings eater at #4 so the two rookies aren't together so if the pressure gets to them and they get hammered by some team then the bullpen doesn't get depleted.

 
at 10:58 PM Blogger Red Faced said...

Kevin in Ft Myers I think you are pretty close to the mark on the whole Dusty comment about walks and clogging the bases. If I'm not mistaken I think Dusty had been talking about Dunn in that same conversation and Dunn does walk a lot. Well one thing for sure is that the Big Donkey can clog the bases so I think Dusty was more concerned with guys who can hit for power settling for walks when he'd rather have them driving runs in with doubles and HR's. If we were going strictly by OBP to determine our leadoff hitter then Dunn could end up there sometime... oh hell, that actually happened didn't it.

Much better blog today by the way.

I enjoy the Volquez outing immensely today and am looking quite forward to seeing Cueto pitch on the tube tomorrow... I know, it's not quite as good as being there but that's all I'm going to get tomorrow.

I would like to see Cueto in the #3 spot, don't worry about it being to much pressure on him, this kid doesn't know pressure. Fogg and Volquez appear to be leading for #4 and #5 as everyone else thinks. But don't be surprised to see Belisle climb back into the rotation if he closes the spring with 2 solid outings. I hope he does but I won't be as concerned about it if he does not. He'll be good in the pen. Bailey... I'll see you pitch some in Louisville when I drive up to see Bruce play some the first couple of months. I hope the kid gets his command sorted out. He's got too much talent not to do so.

Later, oh by the way, how many of you guys will actually be making opening day? Just curious if many of us will be making it.

 
at 11:02 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

firefly,

I beleive the root of JR's unpopularity lies in a perceived connection between him being on this team, and losing.

This team was a loser long before he got here, and in his tenure here the players required to win anything were never brought in.

Hes still a good right fielder and a really good hitter.

He has been hurt, there is no denying that, at times it seems for entire seasons, but if you are Griffey would you rush back from an injury to "help" a team thats double digits behind in the standings.
A team with pitching staffs like the Reds have had?

Anyway, this perception of Reds losing and Griffey go hand in hand, but I think Reds fans should ponder this:

The 100% realistic posibility of the Reds winning WITH Griffey in the line up. Its not absurd.

Conversley, they should consider the possibility of getting rid a Griffey and STILL NOT winning anything.

Griffey is not the sole reason for the Reds successes or failures.

 
at 11:04 PM Blogger Branden said...

anybody see that hamilton is hitting .600 in spring training and went 10-10 recently. I wish he was still with us :(

 
at 11:17 PM Blogger Dave said...

Firefly, thank you! And thank God someone said it! Griffey has been hurt, and he has been less than the Mariners got out of him...but he's still a ballplayer, plain and simple. He made a diving catch the other day in spring training...he's a great teammate, keeps it fun, and leads the younger guys. It always makes me sad to see all the ungrateful whiners saying "lose Griffey;" he's an asset to the team, and took a discount to play in his hometown. Even now, compare his money/number to say, JD Drew. He's worth having, he's better than Hopper, Freel, and Dickerson combined, and it's a damned shame he's not appreciated here.

 
at 11:28 PM OpenID r2theoman said...

Firefly,

I agree whole heartedly with you. Yes, he has been injured, but when he's in the lineup he produces. He puts baseballs in the stands and people. I wouldn't mind keeping him a few more years if he continues to produce. That and he's an all-around good guy.

 
at 12:10 AM Blogger NVreds said...

this is gonna be a fun year for all of us, even away from the ballpark

 
at 1:04 AM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Wow,I go snowboarding to Vail(& yes,it was a powder day,for those wondering.20" in 72 hours & snowing hard today) for the afternoon & Come back to some very good points.Some that I have been bringing up for day's now.

1.Catcher, The need to really have a bonafided catcher that can do all.Hard to find,but can be bought for the right price next offeason.(Thank you,whoever posted the Catcher FA's for next season)

2.Nuke Bailey, Bullpen or AAA.i am a huge Nuke"Homer"Bailey fan.But results are results & there ain't "No crying in Baseball"! I say Bullpen,but I would rather have a bullpen with guys that can get the job done,than someone that can't find the zone.I said before that I think the bullpen can't hurt,It's good for seasoning,but Now with the emergence of Cueto & Voltron,It's going to get harder for Nuke to find his way in.Bullpen might be his best chance,as of now.Fogg is better than some think & he's not giving up his spot to some young guy that needs some "maturing".I guarantee that.I've watched Fogg more than others,he's not great,but not horrible eithe..Just enough to keep his team in the game.Plus the postseason run last season,could carry over.

3.Belisele is out.AAA & one more chance to re-prove himself with the reds later in the season.If not,I think the reds cut their loses with him.

4.Jack is a bored person,ANYONE that post's that much,Is lonely.He sounds like a broken record most of the time & he's full of @#^%.

 
at 1:10 AM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Oh yea, i almost forgot.3:10 to Yuma is much better than American Gangsta.But both are very good movies.

The original 3:10(In Black & white,you probably remember that one Fay & Ol timey) is worth watching too.They have different endings,so it's good to compare/

 
at 4:05 AM Blogger outtatown tim said...

Hal McCoy wrote a great article about Griffey and 'A Special Wish Foundation request... just shows there are intangibles involved too.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/03/14/ddn031408makeawish.html?enable_wireless=true&UrAuth=`NbNUObN[UbTTUWUXUaUZT[U`UWU^U_UZUcUcUcTYWYWZV

 
at 6:52 AM Blogger jdeezman said...

What a difference a couple of good young arms makes!

If this performance successfully rolls into the regular season, GABP will be the place to be.

Now if we can just address the catching situation adequately...

 
at 8:56 AM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

anybody see that hamilton is hitting .600 in spring training and went 10-10 recently. I wish he was still with us :(

No Brandon, were too busy watching Volquez and Cueto!

They are on the OUR team you know!

 
at 10:21 AM Blogger Chris said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
at 10:24 AM Blogger Chris said...

I liked Hamilton while he was here, and was sad when he was traded, but come on. He's a Texas Ranger now.

For everyone who keeps harping on Hamilton's spring success, here is the first inaugural Volquez Report:

E Volquez - 3.46 ERA, 13.0 IP, 15 H, 5 ER, 19 SO

It's a lot harder to find a good pitcher than a good outfielder. KrivDawg was right.

 
at 11:12 AM Blogger Jay said...

I'd like to see a starting rotation like this:

HARANG
ARROYO
VOLQUEZ
FOGG
CUETO

After re-reading the blogs, looks like I agree with nvreds' rotation.

I try to trade Belisle or relegate him to the bullpen and use him as a spot starter. I like the kid but I think he may be over thinking his game as Kyle Lohse had done with the Reds. Both have great stuff and showed brilliant games, but mostly cannot control their inner demons.

After looking at my starters, I realized we do not have a lefty in the mix. Oh well.

I don't know what to make of Affeldt as he sure isn't a starter. Bailey should go back to the minors and work on his curveball that he can control and at least one more pitch, like a forkball. I think Don Gullett could have taught him that forkball, if he were still in the organization. Bailey needs to listen to his coaches(learn from experience) for what works in the pros because that fastball, although it may be good; alone will not cut it. We know he has the tools, he just needs a few more.

 
at 3:23 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

On walks, this may sound funny, but Brandon Phillips could take a few of the walks that Adam grounds into.

I say that because he grounds into a lot of DP's, that I would like to see his pitch selection improve, and get his pitch to hit.

With that said, we may not have a more frustrating hitter with 2 strikes on them than BP. He can flat wear out a pitcher.

Now if he can foul off the pitchers pitch (vs rolling it over to SS) and take ball 4 a little more, there is plenty behind him to get the job done

 
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