Reds Insider: Pirates 4, Reds 3

Saturday, April 12, 2008

Pirates 4, Reds 3

The numbers tell the story:

--14 hits, 3 runs Saturday; 21 hits, 3 runs in the series.

--11 runners left on base, 23 in the last two days.

--5-for-17 with runners in scoring position Saturday after going 0-for-10 Friday.

"I looked up on the scoreboard and we had 14 hits. They made one error," Jeff Keppinger said. "That's 15 runners on base, and we only scored three runs. That's not going to cut it."

"He who gets the most two-out hits wins," Dusty Baker said. "They did and we didn't."

I don't have any quick solutions. But I'd consider strongly sending Edwin Encarnacion to Triple-A. I think he'll be a good player again. But he's a long way from it right now. Jolbert Cabrera is tearing it up at Louisville (.407, .471 on-base, .593 slugging). Put him at third until Encarnacion finds his stroke. Cabrera hit .282 with the Dodgers in 2003 and .270 with the Mariners in '04 before going to Japan. Those of you who saw him in spring training knows he's got some pop in his bat.

Question for tomorrow: Can Johnny Cueto be a stopper?

57 Comments:

at 7:58 PM

Emilio said...

How many freaking men are we going to leave on base against this piss poor freaking team?????

Sorry, I feel better now that I've vented my frustration a bit.

at 8:24 PM

reds fest said...

Even if our starting pitchers threw a no-hitter, we wouldn't win.

at 8:34 PM

Redsfansince72 said...

John, With the funk this team is in, when will the Reds bring up Cabrera or Hairston?? OR could they make a trade to get a power Righthanded bat?? Cleveland has alot of Righthanded hitters.. Would the Indians trade Garko for Votto?? also Jonny Gomes is supposedly on the trading block. but he is a DH, but he has huge power abilities!! thanks for your response

at 8:49 PM

Joe said...

I sure did not think the Reds would have this much problem scoring runs. But, it is still early and I'm hoping the bats warm up with the weather over the next 10 days.

at 9:00 PM

Joe said...

John: Are the number for Majewski in Louisville right? 3.1 innings, 11 hits, 2 HR and an astronomical ERA? Is he still hurt? Do you think this will be the spot Belisle fills in AAA if he is optioned? Has there ever been any resolution or award on that grievance the Reds filed against leather pants and the Nats?

at 9:07 PM

sabr_blogger said...

Aaron, you do NOT know that Hatteberg would have made that play. Just because he is old as the hills doesn't mean he makes the play. Old does not necessarily equal good.

And forget "potential", Votto already demonstrated last fall what kind of player he already is. That Baker has always needed to "age" a player on the bench through at least his peak years and hopefully into his 30s, is one of his gaping failings as a manager. Let's hope Votto's two hit night buys him at least another full game of play during the next week. Because as we all know God forbid he go hitless on a given night, because you can't trust anyone under 30.

at 9:11 PM

maus said...

John;
Any idea why mlb gameday has pitch mph 3-5 mph more than fox sports? On mlb lincoln is throwing 92-93. On fox he's throwing 86-88. Who's right?

at 9:22 PM

John Fay said...

Majewski's numbers are correct.

Lincoln was at 94 on the Pirate scoreboard.

at 9:23 PM

sabr_blogger said...

I just noticed that Votto hasn't walked once this year following Dusty's spring admonishment that he didn't like to see his hitters reach base. This after Votto walked 70 times in 496 AB in AAA last year. Hmm, let's hope it's just a small sample size thing.

It makes me wonder if Votto's relatively slow start - after producing last fall at a rate better than Dusty Windbag ever eeked out in his steady but unspectacular career - is due to Baker's messing with his head. Is he swinging at bad pitches, terrified he might otherwise walk and be branded "unaggressive" by the nitwit oldschooler who holds the lineup card? Votto's approach did NOT need changing one iota just because Baker does not understand how runs are produced in baseball and that having your middle/down-order hitters reaching base is also a good thing. I hope like hell Votto just nods politely but does not take to heart anything Baker has to say about his "approach". He was doing just fine before Baker came riding into town.

at 9:30 PM

Unknown said...

Dunn striking out with the bases loaded and one out... haven't we seen this many many MANY times before?

He is making $16 million a year... WHY????

at 9:34 PM

Joe said...

Now that was sad. Bases loaded, one out and your run producers at the plate. That was sad. It sure better warm up soon! Marty was very reserved in his comments about Dunn's AB. I'm impressed.

at 9:46 PM

Bengal43 said...

Call me crazy if you want but we can't have an all lefthanded hitting outfield next year (Dunn, Bruce, Griffey). How about moving wild throwing EE to leftfield and trading for a 3B?

at 9:59 PM

Another losing season said...

Another error for EE and again stranding runners all over the place. This team is starting to show it's problem areas.

at 10:02 PM

Another losing season said...

bengal43...NO! When Gonzalez comes back, Keppinger will be the every day third baseman. Plus, it's highly unlikely that both Dunn and Griffey will be back in Red's uniforms next year.

at 10:03 PM

Unknown said...

EE's throws weren't good by any means but Votto has to dig those out! Dunn's lack of hitting period is driving me nuts... i think it's about time for a lineup shake up... move EE and Dunn far from each other!

at 10:04 PM

Al in Ohio said...

Before anyone jumps on EE for his bad throw (and it WAS bad), a good 1B comes up with that throw. That ball took a pretty decent bounce, and you pretty regularly see 1B make that play.

at 10:12 PM

Al in Ohio said...

OK, I have another bone to pick, this time with Brandon Phillips. Junior leads off with a hit, and Freel runs for him. While the announcers are debating whether or not Freel should try and steal, Phillips swings at the first pitch (totally doing away with any potential strategy, whether a steal or hit-and-run) and hits into a double play. That's just bad baseball. And that's not Dusty's fault, folks. Sometimes players need to THINK the game better.

at 10:21 PM

NVreds said...

well, i'm officially sick of the EE show

Also the opportunities are there, but we couldnt produce, kind of disheartening, hopefully the bats improve a little with the weather. at least we were in position to make it happen, instead of the opposite.

cueto will stop the bleeding tomorrow

at 10:21 PM

Anonymous said...

sabr_blogger, please keep in mind, Votto is up there hacking at anything within eighteen inches of the plate; he's probably terrified to take a walk, in which case at some point he'll get back to the bench, where Dusty will accuse him of "clogging up the bases."

at 10:25 PM

rb said...

said it before. it doesn't matter how good the pitching,if thet don't hit home runs they don't win.for those who think its pitching pitching pitching and more pitching watch this team lose 90 if they dont figure out how to play fundemental baseball.

at 10:26 PM

Anonymous said...

Why is everybody so down on Joey Votto? Yes, he started out slowly in S.T. and the first week out. But after a 3 for 4 tonight he's batting .320. I'll take that any day of the week. It's Hatteberg that needs to go. Yes, he's a veteran guy and a nice player...but he's got no upside whatsoever. I know we need some righthanded pop in the lineup, but replacing Joey isn't the way to do it. Edwin is killing us right now, as is Dunner. Sitting those guys would go a long way towards righting the offensive ship. However I just don't see anyone in the front office allowing Dusty to bench Adam. Edwin is another story though. I wish we had a decent 3b bat in the minors we could bring up, but Adam Rosales is not hitting right now. But he certainly couldn't hit WORSE than Edwin. And his defense is a TON better. Rosales might be worth a look-see.

As for other RH bats we could bring up...Jerry Gil is a pretty logical choice as he could step in in the OF fairly easily. The other potent RH bats are all infielders...just not third basemen. Hairston, Phillips, Cabrera and Green could all help us right now. I'm just not sure where to play them. Keppinger, Brandon and Votto still need to be in there. Any suggestions?

at 10:44 PM

KevinFtMyers said...

EE at third and Votto at first is looking like kerosene and dynamite, one will blow up in your face, and on a bad day, they both do. Votto hit well tonight, but you gotta have a guy that can make plays at first base, espescially digging out one hop throws.

EE? well, I just dont know what to say, 4 errors so far, what is that like just over .700 fielding?

And the LOB, I cant find a number, anyone else got it? I can guess its a big one.

Well, looks like its time for Dusty to earn his money. He needs to find a way to nip this little "slide" in the bud. I know its just 2 games, but the way they lost, they are just not playing well.

And losing to a team that they need to beat 2 of three every time if they are even thinking about contending.

Plenty of time to get it fixed, but at the same time, cant afford to go 4 and 6 after going 6 and 4.

A real slide will eventually come and the Reds need to be 5 or 6 over when it does.

at 10:46 PM

CincyTwBoy said...

John, does EE still have the option? Maybe he needs to clear his mind in AAA AGAIN.

at 10:52 PM

Bengal43 said...

Votto played quite a few games in LF for Louisville last year. John.. how is his defense in LF?

at 10:53 PM

Dave said...

Hatteberg makes the play 90% of the time. He's a pro, always has been. Find another spot for Votto.

at 11:01 PM

Grizzlyfox said...

No team loses 90 games in the NL central if they finish in the top 8in MLB in ERA, which this team barring a major injury to Cueto, Harang, or Volquez could definitely do. And I finally agree with Ol' Al--1B have to deal with bad throws from time to time, they've had thousands of balls thrown to them like that in their lives. And Phillips still is the same player he was last year, low obp, decent average, power, and steals. I'll take him, but his ceiling is so high if he starts being more disciplined. At least take a strike with a speedster on 1st and down by one, that's just basic baseball. Unless if that first pitch is in that tiny little zone that the batter should make and say I'm only swinging in that zone, take it.

at 11:08 PM

Another losing season said...

Al in Ohio...very good point about Phillips up there hacking away at the first pitch. Also, Hopper needs to show more baseball awareness. He should have realized on a weakly hit ball there was no way they were going to double up Patterson and therefore no need to overslide second base trying to break up a play that wasn't even going to get a throw to first.

at 11:09 PM

John Fay said...

A former Reds official in Votto playing left: It gets him farther away from the plate. That helps. He's OK. He's made some nice plays at first. The error was on a play Hatteberg makes, but so does Votto 89 out of 90 times. He should have made the scoop on the second EE error. But it's hard to blame defense for a loss when the Reds left 11 runs on base.

at 11:10 PM

Another losing season said...

Votto has to dig those throws out? Are you kidding? That is why the error goes to double E. I can make that throw to first more accurately than double E. He needs to practice more cuz this isn't working.

at 11:23 PM

sabr_blogger said...

Alphatheta, that was my second point about Votto (scared that if he takes a pitch he'll be demoted to Rookie ball). Hopefully he has brushed off Dusty's poor advice from this spring by now and is back to the budding star form any serious baseball watcher knows he has written all over him.

And Aaron, my point wasn't so much that Hatteberg wouldn't have flubbed that particular ball as badly as JV did - it's that you can't make judgments based on one play or at bat. Baseball Prospectus - the most successful forecasting people in the business - show Hatteberg and Votto playing at the same level of defense already. And Votto's offensive projection blows Hatteberg's projection away. Remember, Hatteberg's on a downward arc and Votto is on an upward one. And he was better than the veteran already last year.

If the Reds feel the need to "platoon" at first they should ship Hatteberg off to Japan (or whatever MLB team needs a nifty PH) and get a RH bat to complement their budding young star at 1B. That Krivsky hasn't figured out yet that Hatteberg's righthanded equivalent would be a dime a dozen should tell you all you need to know about the GM's creativity and sophistication at his job.

at 11:30 PM

reds fest said...

If you can't hit, you should trow as well as other players do... Send him to AAA.

at 11:49 PM

Zippy said...

A couple days ago, when I was asking for people to list a good move Dusty had made, I was told that holding EE out of the lineup for a day and working with him on his swing should count as a good Dusty decision. I wonder if that still counts?

Anyway, far be it from me to suggest I know anything about baseball, but it's seemed to me that ever since GAB opened, a lot of Reds have consistently had problems hitting with runners in scoring position. (EE is actually one of the few exceptions, despite his recent struggles.) My sense is that too many of them are thinking about hitting a three run home run, and not enough of them are thinking about hitting a one run line drive. I always see other teams' hitters shortening their strokes in put-the-ball-in-play situations, but a lot of Reds don't seem to know how to do that. There's a reason we've got so many guys with low averages, low OBP, but a lot of HRs and doubles.

But I'm sure I must be wrong about this, because I've never actually been a major league player.

at 11:55 PM

bluegrass said...

Just look at the problem with the averages in 5th and 6th places in the order. Much lower than all the other averages. 5th has to be clutch sometime. We never have got this from Dunn. Looks like there is a place for Bruce in left field. Also, is Freel hurt? Or why wouldn't Dusty play him in left to play a right hand batter against all those lefty throwers?

at 11:58 PM

anthony said...

Hey John: Good post tonight. Any talk about ongoing attempts to trade Ryan P. Freel? He'd be another possible alternative to EE at 3B, and it would be good to get him some playing time if he's trade bait.

I'm interested in your suggestion of switching EE to Louisville for Jolbert Cabrera -- Cabrera's April seems like a continuation of his solid ST. Worth considering, but maybe not until other options have been tried. We're about 6% of the way into a long season, so I'm not convinced EE should be demoted just yet.

The offense had its most productive day (12 runs) in a game against Milwaukee with Keppinger hitting behind Dunn (protection?), and the 3B hitting second -- it was Freel on that day, which is an obvious option, but EE could get a shot there as well, and he'd be more likely to get something to hit with Junior behind him.

As it stands, the bottom half of the order has been so weak that opposing RHP have not had to pitch to Dunn, and LHP can pitch around EE: these two guys lead the team in walks (Dunn 13, EE 10). If Votto starts hitting, and we get Keppinger in the six-hole, I think this offense could be much more productive. If EE flounders in the two-spot, then bring on Cabrera, or (as others have said) just wait for A-Gon to come back and then put Kepp at 3B. Thoughts?

at 12:20 AM

matty buckets said...

I assume those thinking Hatte makes those plays at first don't actually watch the games. Hatte blew an easier ball last week. Votto is up to .320 and should be the 1b the rest of the year. Kriv blew it when he didn't deal Hatte to the Sox in January which led to them signing Casey.

at 12:53 AM

Jonesz said...

Jorge Cantu: .292 w/ 2 HR, 5R and 5 RBI's and he can throw the ball in the air to first base -- EE .161 going into tonight w/ 2 HR, 3 R, 5 RBI's and 4 errors in less than two weeks.

at 12:57 AM

John said...

I'm officially tired of the "Let's Be Patient With EE Because He's Still Young" schtick. All I see is the second coming of Willie Greene.

at 1:04 AM

ben s. said...

EE pops up the first pitch he sees with two outs and the bases loaded.

Next play at the bottom of the same inning he throws the ball away.

We need to let him, Weathers, and Valentin go if we are serious about contending.

I really cannot handle watching EE anymore. Bring someone up for him, and when Gonzo gets back, move Keppinger to third, end of story.

at 1:07 AM

Michael said...

Freel is a better canidate for 3B. He made ESPN's Gem Award for 3b of the year, two years in a row. His fielding is so much better than EE's. He's not a power hitter like EE but Edwin only lucks up once in a while and throws us a bone or two all year long. He hardly ever steals a bag.
But then again Dusty has all year to experiment?

at 1:15 AM

unblogger said...

sabrblogger -
First, if you are such a stat head, you should do some research before posting. While Votto has not had any walks, it is not because he is "hacking away" at early pitches.
This year he has gone deep into the count 12 times, while swinging early in the count 9 times, an exact 4:3 ratio.
Last year in the majors, he went deep into the count 37 times and swung early in the count 40 times, basically a 1:1 ratio.
So he actually been more patient this year then than last, so far. The reason why he has not gotten any walks is that he has only batted 21 times, and any sample size that small is meaningless.
Also, in terms of using stats to rate defense, that is also meaningless. All you have to is watch Hatteberg play and then watch Votto play to know that Hatteberg is better defensively.
However, I will agree with you that the Hatteberg/Votto platoon makes no sense. The Reds need a RH badly.

at 1:28 AM

BATSFAN said...

Hey guys, i went to the bats game the last two nights, Bruce hit a homer friday bats won 8-5, and today Lehr looked great 7 great innigns 0 runs, and John is right about Caberera hes killing, Ross still isnt hitting but he did pick somebody off base with a beauty of a throw. I spoke with Power he said Belisle will pitch in a few days! GO BATS 7-3 YAYAY!!!

at 1:46 AM

REddlegg in Colorado said...

It was frustrating to watch,to have that many scoring opportunities & get zilch is ridiculous.
I do think in tight games when the bats are cold when it matters,that is really when defense plays a crucial part,to pick up the slack.

I agree with a post saying EE & Dunn need to be broken up.EE should be 7th or 8th.

I think we are going to see Kepp(When Gonzo cimes back) or freel get more substantial playing time at 3rd here very soon.EE is just not cutting it, how much time & labor can you spend trying to correct a 4 year pro,it's getting exhausting watching this guy kill the team.They had Cantu & let him go.Boy, wouldn't we like to have his RH bat right now at 3rd.

Catcher & 3rd worry me the most.Patterson in CF is a surprise.I'm all about results & he's produced so he gets my vote for CF( for now),but it is still early.

6-6 ain't that bad so I'm not hitting the panic button yet,there is still 150 more games to go.

at 6:53 AM

JackBlueAsh said...

votto did not butcher anything..nor is that the reason why this team has lost the last two games..Al that ball did not take a "decent bounce"

two weeks into the season and the majority of you , many of which had the Reds winning their division, are ready to write this team off.. too funny

John ..EE is looking lost again..maybe you are correct..another trip to the minors will help him regain his focus

Ill tell ya who does look bad..Dunn

This team will do better than last years team, it will be fun to watch Volquez, Cueto, and Harang pitch

Yet..as has been evident the past two days..there still is an underlying complacency to this team..same as before. I wont get into the two players that contribute to this..but I dont think either will be around next year

at 7:52 AM

JerBear said...

I say stick with Votto. He might not have been too good defensively last night, but I've heard a lot from the announcers how he's been a lot better defensively then he was advertised before coming up.

EE is another situation. I say you give him 1-2 more weeks and if he is still batting under .200 and making errors he would send himself down!

EE has had 2 game winning hits, so he's kind of a mystery. But I think there comes a point where his lack of hitting and inconsistent defense hurts you day in and day more than a game winning homer once a week.

For now, you just have to ride EE and Dunn out. Without them hitting the Reds offense is pretty terrible.

at 9:22 AM

Mr. Doom and Gloom said...

i'd rather take my chances with phillips swinging at a first pitch strike than to see freel get caught stealing or picked off again

at 9:30 AM

redsfanwoody said...

I agree with Zippy. You go with a couple of the pitches the other way instead of yanking them for a shallow fly ball, maybe we are discussing a sweep of the Pirates. This is were I think Dusty needs to make his displeasure known.

Also, it seems every year their is one team the Reds just can't beat. It might be the Pirates time. Which is a ill feeling. Remember a few years back the Reds couldn't win the last few games to make the playoffs in Pittsburgh?

I still say keep Votto playing. What's the sense of sitting him down,or moving him to a different position?

at 9:38 AM

redsfanwoody said...

I forgot.The question shouldn't be about Cueto being a stopper. It should be "Can The Reds hit with RISP?".

at 10:06 AM

Kurt said...

I have to agree with zippy and bluegrass. EE is really killing the team and Dunn isn't far behind right now. I thought the reds could maybe take second or the division as some experts and bloggers have said, but when you lose to the pirates, you have no business winning the division or second place. Hitting .150 in the 5 and 6 hole is killing this team. I never thought hitting would hurt this team, but it is. The bullpen has been pretty good along with the starting picthing, but if the 5 and 6th holes keep being a black hole of production, then this will be a long season. I know its early, but it just hurts to lose to the pirates like this.

at 10:23 AM

OhioJim said...

It is too easy to just lay the blame off on EE. He has also won two games with his bat one of which for certain and the other most likely that would been losses otherwise.

The problem is that this roster is misbegotten. They can't afford to have both Freel and Hopper plus both Hatteburg and Votto. If they would resolve these spots, somebody like Andy Phillips or Jolbert Caberra would be available off the bench to help them over this spell instead of languishing in Louisville.

at 10:59 AM

Manda said...

ZIppy-- the reason you got flack for "not being a ML manager" was NOT because anybody was suggesting anyone had to be a manager to comment....it was because you opened with "noone has attacked one of MY managerial moves." It was a silly comment that SOUNDED arrogant (not saying that YOU are silly OR arrogant....just that the comment was). Im sure it was simply a throw-away line and didnt mean much, but be a man about it and suck it up

at 11:04 AM

Solojoe said...

Votto is hitting .381 in game with more than one at bat. START HIM EVERYDAY.

at 11:14 AM

Hugh D. Pohl said...

It's a long season. Don't make too much of each stretch. I actually have to agree with Jack on this one. It's funny how tide turns so quickly from over-enthusiastic to gloom and doom for a lot of the postersh here.

at 11:20 AM

Another losing season said...

Does anyone think team chemistry is an issue with this club? For an outsider looking in it appears to me they have no genuine leaders...just a lot of johnny good times.

I'm not remotely suggesting there are overt issues within the clubhouse and while I could very well be wrong, I think that lack of leadership and professionalism could be contributing to the complacency which Jack expresed.

at 11:50 AM

Bogey said...

This team has shown a propensity for playing up to and down to the competition. This year is starting off just like the previous two. There is no killer instinct on this team. Bad chemistry, bad joojoo,whatever, something needs to change. If you can't get the job done with this cast then change the cast. Can't be any worse.

at 1:05 PM

Zippy said...

Manda,

You're quite wrong. I opened by saying (and you can go check this, because it's the very first comment in that thread) I didn't think Baker knew what he was doing, I thought the squeeze was a stupid call, and I couldn't think of any of his moves that had actually worked the way he wanted them to work. Then I was immediately attacked, including this comment:

"I love all the Dusty bashers on here. He has one of the best winning percentages of active managers, he is continuing that streak here, and sitting at home behind your keyboard you think you know more than him. Do you suppose people like that think they just weren't fortunate enough to manage, and Dusty lucked into managing. That if they somehow were given the chance they could have been a more successful ML manager because they know so much about the game? I think they know the real truth, and griping on the internet fills some frustration in their 9 to 5 life..."

THEN I said something about never being fired from a managerial job or having anyone question my managerial skills. It was meant as a somewhat humorous response to a pointless personal attack, but apparently a lot of people missed that fact and took my response quite literally. That was just one instance (of several) in which people weren't really paying attention to what I was actually saying, and instead chose to respond to what they imagined I was saying. Now, be a man, suck it up, and admit your mistake.

at 1:08 PM

Red Faced said...

I'm going to agree with Jack as well. I'd put much more blame on Dunn at this point than EE but the sad truth is that when a team is leaving this many guys on base there is going to be plenty of blame to go around.

We can not continue to allow this to happen and I'm all for Dusty mixing up the lineup, pulling up a right handed bat or whatever he decides might help out.

Good teams have their star players step up when needed. Well I'm waiting for someone to step up with the big hit and it looks like I'm stilling waiting for it.

at 1:22 PM

KevinFtMyers said...

I am in agreement with the assesment that there is no leader on this team. Maybe a couple guys lead by example, Hatteberg, BP, but this team needs someone to cuss and scream, and knock over the coolers. Since theres nobody on this roster to do that, DUSTY SHOULD. He can do it and it doesent have to be specifically the way I said. He can do it by sitting guys, (EE, and not just for a game) batting guys lower, (DUNN)and by giving the team the butt ripping of their lives behind closed doors.
Like I said in another post,

ITS TIME FOR DUSTY TO EARN HIS MONEY!

Previous Posts

Saturday, April 12, 2008

Pirates 4, Reds 3

57 Comments: