Reds Insider
From news of the day to news of the weird, John Fay provides a glimpse of what it’s like to cover the Cincinnati Reds

John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2008

Reds 9, Cubs 0: 7 homer day

Hear those fireworks?

The Reds hit seven homers today -- Joey Votto hit three -- breaking their Great American Ball Park record. It's most the Reds have hit in a game since they set a National League record with nine in Philadelphia on Sept. 4, 1999.

Votto is the 23rd Red to hit three in a game. The last was Aaron Boone May 8, 2003.

Votto grounded out in the eighth in his bid to tie the MLB record.

Edinson Volquez (5-1) had another great outing -- seven innings, four hits, six walks, 10 strikeouts. His ERA is 1.06 after seven starts. He's allowed 28 hits, 24 walks and struck out 52 in 42 1/3 innings. He struck out DLee with a 94 mph fastball to finish his day.

The Reds hit four homers in the second inning. That tied a club record for home runs in an inning. The last time they did it was Aug. 17, 1996. Eddie Taubensee, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Branson and Barry Larkin hit them.

It's only the second time a Cub pitcher allowed four homers in an inning.

Votto and Adam Dunn went back-to-back to start in the second. An out later, Paul Bako went deep. All three were to nearly the same place in the right-field seats. Edinson Volquez singled. Corey Patterson took a called third strike. Then Jerry Hairston went deep to left.

Jon Lieber had only given up two home runs coming in.

Brandon Phillips and Votto went back-to-back in the fifth. Phillips' hit off the foul pole. Votto's went into the Reds' bullpen in right-center.

Phillips left the game with a bruised left calf. He fouled a ball off it.


at 1:19 PM Blogger Red Faced said...

I"m not complaining about the 4 homeruns in the second but is the wind blowing out today or something?

But this is a complaint: So Liebert has 2 strike outs on the day so far both are our leadoff hitter, yes you guessed it Corey Patterson who is now batting a whopping .196 on the year and his OBP is about .250. What in the world has to happen in order to make Dusty swallow his pride and get this guy out of the leadoff spot when he plays? I don't care how fast you are if you aren't getting on base it doesn't matter.

at 1:28 PM Blogger RickDinChicago said...

Great start. Let's see if we can finish it.

Volquez seems to walk a lot of batters. Three through three innings so far. This has to catch up with him eventually, right?

at 1:49 PM Blogger Mike said...

Patterson strikes out..hitting .196 now...great leadoff hitter.....but remember..Freel is not an everyday player..the implication is he couldn't hit Lieber on his best day..and he's probably nursing aches and pains from playing the last few days and his propensity to wear down after 2 games. Besides he can't hit righties anyway.Get Freel back in there!!

at 1:57 PM Blogger Optimism said...

Boy, we cant even enjoy it when we're scoring runs and getting good pitching at the same time. Some people are never happy are they? Lets enjoy this one!

at 2:00 PM Blogger m2 said...

How much influence did Baker exert in the signing of Patterson? What an epic blunder! I wonder how long it will be until Cincy sees Baker for the impersonation of a manager he is (poor!).

at 2:01 PM Blogger Chad said...


Normally, I hate all the negative posts on here and bashing of playings. However, it is beyond ridiculouis that Corey Patterson is hitting leadoff for the Reds. Please be honest, do you agree with this, even on a spot-start basis? Do any of the Reds' writers understand this? Why do none of the writers call Dusty out on this?


at 2:09 PM Blogger m2 said...

Well young Volquez appears to be dealing today...sure to bring on more discussion on the Hamilton trade...

at 2:14 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Corey Patterson would be behind Freel and Jerry Hairston Jr. on my depth chart. When he played, I'd hit him seventh.

at 2:18 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

all problems solved..

at 2:19 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Freel would be an utilityman on my depth chart..

Patterson and Hairston would not be on the team

at 2:22 PM Blogger Arden Dulou said...

Super Bako to lead off! Call Bruce up and end Patterson reign. If we must wait until June for Bruce, at least start Freel and Hopper until Bruce is brought up.

at 2:22 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Hopper is injured

at 2:23 PM Blogger Mark said...

Notice that the Cubs are not afraid of pitching to Patterson with runners on 2-3 and two outs. Typically intentional walk territory.

at 2:26 PM Blogger Mark said...

And Patterson is true to form: ground out to second. Kepp should have pinch-hit form him to blow the game open.

at 2:27 PM Blogger Mark said...

My guess is, unless Volquez has a quick inning, he is done for the day after 6.

at 2:28 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

game is already blown open..enjoy the victory while u can

at 2:30 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Well, Dusty can be given credit for Bako at this point. Patterson not so good this week. Play him when he is hot.

Interesting that Wayne was "told" to sign Patterson. I am still curious if Wayne was told to hire Dusty.

With the way his firing went down, it looks bad for Mr. C in retrospect.

Maybe Pete was never given a chance to manage this team this year because it was out of Wayne's control...

Hey Bedard is making his 5th start of the season. Glad Wayne held onto Votto, Cueto, Bailey and whoever else the Jock would have sent balty for DL Bedard.

at 2:31 PM Blogger Arden Dulou said...

Isn't Hopper due back soon though? I guess Freel/Hairston would have to due.

at 2:32 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

WK is responsible for the makeup of the majority of this team..judge for yourself

at 2:34 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Hopper tossed yesterday. He still has a tingling sensation when he throws. I'd think he's at least a two weeks from even going on a rehaqb assignment.

at 2:34 PM Blogger kingseyeland said...

Someone tell Brantley that Arnold Schwarzenegger is a real person, not a superhero.

at 2:37 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

I would trade Votto and get some pitching

at 2:38 PM Blogger Lets Talk Reds Blogger said...

3 homers in one day? Way to go Votto!

Its time to part ways with Hatteberg.

Have you heard anything John?

at 2:39 PM Blogger RickDinChicago said...


I am pretty sure that Krivsky said in multiple exit interviews that it was his call to hire Dusty and he went to ownership for approval.

Votto with 3 homers... sweet!

at 2:39 PM Blogger Greg said...

I would like to declare today 'Joey Votto Day'

at 2:40 PM Blogger Arden Dulou said...

Super Bako? Someone tell Votto that he might want to hit some HRs later in the week.

at 2:41 PM Blogger Arden Dulou said...

Why trade Votto? The first power hitting 1B the Reds have had since Dave Parker and a request to trade is made? I am not seeing something?

at 2:41 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Love Votto's approach to driving the ball to Left Center (twice).

Watch him Adam and Jr., that is how you hit 300. Use to whole yard

at 2:42 PM Blogger Bob Loblaw said...

Aside from a few bad bullpen signings(which he was desperate to fix, and rightly so) Kriv-Dog has done a great job. How bout 3 homers for Votto today? JBA is right that it would be nice to have Hamilton's current production in our lineup, but I'm happy with the production we're getting from Volquez too and I don't second guess the trade at all, with Votto looking like a power hitting lefty and Bruce waiting in the wings for the CF job.

at 2:44 PM Blogger Elliott said...

It pains me to see my Reds in this state...Baker is a joke. I don't know why they hired him so quick, if they would have just waited they could have took a stab at Torre. Just look at the difference Lou has made since taking over for Baker in Chi. AND EVERYONE KNOWS THAT PATTERSON SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS TEAM. Griffey needs to go...Bruce needs to be up, Hopper and Freel should be sharing time in Center. And tell me Belisle is better than Bailey? No way!

It is demoralizing to the players when they are constantly looking over their shoulders. The BEST TALENT should be named starters and LEFT THAT WAY. That is the only way these guys are going to develop that team continuity. We have WAY too much talent, offense and pitching to be playing like this. Much of the blame should go on Baker.

Also the franchise needs to develop in house talent and keep it. Go young, get rid of aging veterans that are no longer able to contribute. I hope the new GM does not trade away our young talent for more aging vets...

at 2:46 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I think he kidding, Arden. And Dave Parker was an outfielder.

The Parker for Rijo trade was similar to Hamilton for Volquez, Herrera trade. The Reds gave up a lot to get a lot.

By the way, Herrera's ptiched nine scoreless innings at Louisville aftger going 3-0 with 2.55 at Chattanooga.

at 2:50 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Volquez and Hamilton will both be all stars

at 2:50 PM Blogger Brendan T said...

Why did we trade Hamilton again? Oh yeah I remember, it was to get a stud starter.

at 2:51 PM Blogger Bob Loblaw said...

Hey John, have you seen Herrera pitch? I'd be anxious to see if his screwball/changeup is as filthy as I've read about. It is worrisome that his fastball tops out at 85 though. I'm not sure how that would translate to the bigs.

at 2:51 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

"Aside from a few bad bullpen signings(which he was desperate to fix, and rightly so) Kriv-Dog has done a great job".

the team is a mess

at 2:51 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

You know, for every person who claimed that we could not win this year without Bedard...

For all those who doubted what Volquez might be able to do given his history...

Just where would we be IF we had Hamilton, didn't get Volquez, but then traded Votto, Bailey, Stubbs and others to Baltimore for 4 Bedard starts and his DL Stint?

Just curious. Votto may soon catch Josh

at 2:53 PM Blogger WVU Eyes and 'Eers said...

Why on earth leave Volquez in there with 100+ pitches and a 9 run lead? Why, oh why?

at 2:54 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

regardless of what we did ..I don't see much difference in our record compared to last year.

at 2:56 PM Blogger Richie Rich said...

118 pitches with a 9 run lead. And Dusty wonders where he got that reputation on starting pitchers.

at 2:56 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

of course if we were not paying Dunn 10 million a year and kennie another 12.. and paying Arroyo over 27 million, Stanton, Cormier, and Freel, millions..

we may have been able to buy some quality pitching and keep Hamilton as our centerfielder


at 2:59 PM Blogger Bob Loblaw said...

Thanks for quoting my post, Jack. Yes, the team is a mess, but not because of Krivsky. Name a move (aside from the aformentioned bullpen signings), that you don't like. Was it getting Brandon Phillips for nothing? Was it acquiring Keppinger, your favorite player? How bout some of the non-moves? Are you mad we didn't trade Bruce, Votto, and Bailey for Bedard? Or do you just wish we would have traded Cueto and Votto for Joe Blanton? Come on, give me a break. I like it when comments appear instantly and we can debate in a friendly manner. Don't ruin it again.

at 2:59 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

by the way...Tom Brenneman belongs with the TV crew..the dude is wishy washy

at 3:00 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Whomever was the general manager and perhaps even the owner in cahoots..is responsible for the current status of the team

at 3:03 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Patterson, Hairston, Baker, Cormier, Stanton extensions, Freel extension, Juan Castro. 46 million for a closer we are two years away from needing, Josh Fogg, bringing Dunn back..just to name a few..plus a dozen other boneheaded moves

at 3:04 PM Blogger Arden Dulou said...

I believe Parker played his last year (full or part time I don't quite remember it has been awhile) with the Reds as a 1B.

I would take Shearns over Belisle.

at 3:04 PM Blogger m2 said...

Virtual standing ovation...Patterson lifted his BA to .200!

at 3:05 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

I am debating in a friendly manner..because I dont agree with you does not make this hostile

at 3:07 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Its not necessary to analyze the moves.. Bob Castellini and Wayne Krivsky are responsible for the current status of this team

at 3:09 PM Blogger John Fay said...

What pitcher were you going to buy?

The best free agent pitcher on the market was Carlos Silva. He's 3-1 with a 4.20 ERA. His career ERA is over 4.00 and he got $41 million over 4 years.

at 3:11 PM Blogger hey hey redlegs said...

jack why trade votto? we finally have a 1st baseman that can hit and now u want to trade him. who will play 1st? and don't even mention cantu i'm sick of hearing about him.

at 3:13 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

John..I don't follow baseball like you do..but its not buying pitching in the course of one off season..

Its a continual process. Called good decision making and proper budgeting and eliminating foolish expenditures

To debate that anything is going right with this team is rather foolish

I like Volquez.

at 3:14 PM Blogger m2 said...


It's not that simple. Succesful MLB teams develop a scheme or a plan. They have a minor league system that incorporates savvy draft picks, instills a wise work ethic and ensures and understanding of fundamentals. Now there has to be a plan and one hopes it balances speed, defense, pitching and hitting. The Reds are porous (at best) defensively and unbalanced at the plate (see left handed pitchers). Pitching seems to be improving, but there are still holes that must be addressed. The parts are there to raise their standings but it won't come without some trades/acquisitions. K. made some very wise moves and understand the minor leagues are greately improved from the sad state they were in when he became GM. Certainly, some unwise moves were made as well, but Baseball is both an art and a science meaning, one can't be absolutely certain in predicting future talent. Even Billy Beane has had his failures (see Aaron Harang).

K. is gone - let's root for his sucessor to flourish.

at 3:14 PM Blogger Pat said...

I bet if you ask all the scouts watching Reds games these days who the best TALENT in CF for the Reds is, they say Patterson. So, maybe it's not the best talent, but the guy that's going to help us the most. Seems like that would be Freel or Hairston these days. Hopper when he gets healthy. This is Pattersons third strike. Time to release him.

Congrats Reds, you won the series and did well. Keep it going.

at 3:14 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

just kidding about votto..but according to some on this blog..everyday field players are more easily obtainable than quality pitching.

at 3:15 PM Blogger Joe said...

WOW! About time!

Can Votto get a 4th? Lets keep those fingers crossed. Votto day...I agree.

How about Volquez.... Thom is right when he says we have begun to see the blooming of a mighty fine starting rotation with Harag, Volquez, Cueto and hopefully Bailey and Thompson.

Too bad some of this did not happen last night. They've hit the BIG Z before.

The big question I have is can these young guys get the older guys fired up?

at 3:15 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

M2 I agree

at 3:16 PM Blogger Matt said...

what's wrong with brandon phillips? is his injury severe?

at 3:17 PM Blogger Richie Rich said...

according to some on this blog..everyday field players are more easily obtainable than quality pitching.

If you don't believe that, then we can't help you.

at 3:18 PM Blogger John from Cincinnati said...

Hey John,

Do you know why Phillips was lifted? Is he hurt?

at 3:21 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

WK mad a major strategical blunder..

any manager ..of any organization has to have a good feel for his organization

WK felt that this organization would be ready to compete sooner..rather than later and made moves accordingly.

Maybe he was forced into this tenuous position by an impatient Bob Castellini..perhaps John Fay has a better feel for this and can comment on such

I , and maybe 1 or 2 others on this blog felt that at the most..the team this year would make a rebound and play .500 ball

I dont think the team will win consistently with the mix of players that are currently on the club

at 3:22 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Checking on Phillips. He stayed in and ran the bases on the Votto's third home run.

at 3:23 PM Blogger Arden Dulou said...

I also hope to see a strong farm system built for the future over winning for one year.

Sorry, I misunderstood your sarcasm Jack about trading Votto.

Since we all little influence over the Reds maybe the little influence we all can have is to voice our opinions so that Patterson gets either released or put on the bench.

at 3:24 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

according to some on this blog..everyday field players are more easily obtainable than quality pitching.

If you don't believe that, then we can't help you.

see Pete Rose
Joe Morgan
Carl Ripken
Willie Mays
Johnny Bench
Barry Larkin

everyday field players like Patterson and Hairston are easy to get..Good ones that make an impact are not

at 3:25 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Phillips left with a bruised left calf. He fouled a ball off it.

Votto went 6-3 in the fifth at-bat.

at 3:26 PM Blogger FinnBaker said...

Anyone know why Phillips left the game?

at 3:27 PM Blogger Bob Loblaw said...

I agree, you are debating in a much friendlier manner, but you mocked Krivsky in back-to-back posts, basically taking shots at my comment that he did a good job. So that's where the hostility came from.
As far as the moves you don't like, Dunn and Griffey were already here, so Krivsky had nothing to do with their contracts, except for Dunn's, and do you expect him not to pick his option up? Come on. Cormier's salary was picked up by the A's. Stanton falls into the bad bullpen signings I already mentioned, Patterson was a signing he was forced to make, and the Freel extension is not as bad as you make it out to be.

Castro was a mistake, to be sure, but we really didn't have any infield depth at the time and he has "hands of gold", even if he hasn't had an extra base hit in 9 years. And everyone knows that field players are much more easily acquired than pitchers, not just some people on this blog.

at 3:27 PM Blogger FinnBaker said...


at 3:30 PM Blogger Richie Rich said...

everyday field players like Patterson and Hairston are easy to get..Good ones that make an impact are not

Much easier to get than quality pitching.

at 3:30 PM Blogger Bob Loblaw said...

Moral of the story is, yes, he made a few mistakes, but all-in-all Wayne is a front office guy that any team would be lucky to have. He's got a great eye for talent and he realizes that Small Market clubs have to produce their own stars, not buy them.

at 3:31 PM Blogger Richie Rich said...

How about you just do the simple math and count how many guys in the majors that you would call good everyday players and compare it to the amount of quality starting pitchers? Let us know the final result.

at 3:34 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

I dont know WK nor was I mocking him..but what you have seen on the field this year is a result of his and Castellini's leadership and decision making processes

WK was fired and Castellini made it quite apparent as to why

We all have tough and inpatient bosses at one time or another..we learn how to manage them and show them the virtue of patience. Picking up Adam Dunns 11 million was a major blunder.

I dont know whom you work for but if my administrators would make such major financial and personnel blunders..they are history

at 3:35 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Moral of the story is, yes, he made a few mistakes, but all-in-all Wayne is a front office guy that any team would be lucky to have. He's got a great eye for talent and he realizes that Small Market clubs have to produce their own stars, not buy them.

the he should get a job in no time

at 3:35 PM Blogger John Fay said...

By the way, comment moderation was off during the game. I didn't have to take down one comment.

Thanks for being civil.

at 3:38 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

And Votto is an everyday player that a GM in BlueAsh would have sent to Balty for DL Bedard along with Cueto or Bailey, Stubbs, et al.

You didn't answer the question Mr. GM in BlueAsh. Would this be a better team with Hamilton and Bedard, less Volquez, Votto ?

I think it is safe to say that the V boys are younger and more durable based on the last season and 1/5th than Josh and DL

And Mr. C may have had more to say about signing Dunn than Wayne did.

at 3:42 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Big Red Machine..did not have great pitching..a good bullpen..but not great pitching..It was the everyday field players that made that team so great..

works both ways

at 3:54 PM Blogger Nate said...

It is much easier to get quality position players than it is to get quality pitching...the Reds last 10 years is a perfect example

at 4:03 PM Blogger Gunner said...

Interesting article by Ken Rosenthal today with some speculation about the Reds. He also talked about a lot of Marlins players who will be entering arbitration this off season. I'd love to get SS Ramirez off their hands. They tend to sell off their players when they reach this point. We have alot of good young talent at the lower levels. I wonder what it would cost to get a Willingham/Ramirez trade done this offseason. I'd be willing to trade off several players at or below the AA level. Stubbs & Valaika for starters ... I'd even consider throwing in Keppenger. We wouldnt need him with Hanley around. Willingham would replace Dunn. Of course the trades would have to include the players coming back to us signing L/T contracts.

Here is a link to the article:


at 4:08 PM Blogger Red Faced said...

All in all this was a decent, not excellent but decent series for the Reds. Only because we didn't hit against Zambrano and he looked a little suspect early in the game. But overall I'm happy. Now, please just keep the bats going and please, if you don't take Patterson out of the lineup at least don't bat him leadoff.

Oh, by the way Josh Hamilton called to tell me that Volquez's ERA is now a blistering 1.06 I miss you Josh, but I understand the trade my man.

at 4:12 PM Blogger Big Red Smokey said...

I have finally heard it all. Thinking that quality everyday players are harder to come by than quality pitching.

He should be banned on that comment alone.

at 4:36 PM Blogger Jon said...


Most people know that if you talk long enough you expose yourself as little more than a nay-sayer.

The free agent market has been barren of quality pitching at an affordable rate for over two years. Before Krivsky got here. Gil Meche and Ted Lilly were last years solid pick-ups, and they have suffered the Arroyo effect in their second season's this year. Perhaps Suppan would have been a decent investment last year, or Silva this year, but look what you're taking away from the offense in return for what you're adding to the pitching. It makes little sense. The best way to get pitching is how Krivsky was doing it. He has signed and put together the very best pitching staff the Reds have had since 95. If you want to argue 99, ok, there is also still a lot of baseball left.

You want to blame WK and Castillini for not getting overpriced veterans is what your argument amounts to. "They should've done better and stuff" doesn't work. Your approach to your posts has always exuded confidence and "I told you so", so why back peddle now? Tell us: who would you have signed?

at 4:37 PM Blogger _Sir_Charles_ said...

Here's a question to all of you to ponder.

What is the optimum number of pitches a starting pitcher should be allowed to throw?

I get the distinct feeling that everyone has 100 settled in their minds for some odd reason. Why is this number so written in stone? Why is everyone so mad at Dusty (here and on the Redszone) for leaving Edinson in for the 7th inning? What is so horribly wrong with throwing 120 pitches?

I already have my own opinion on the subject, I'm just curious what yours are.

at 4:40 PM Blogger IndyCat said...

Jack, based on the comments he made last fall, wouldn't you say it's possible that Castellini mandated picking up Dunn's option?

Anyone else wonder why Voltron went back out for the 7th? He didn't need the extra inning. Maybe the theory is, every inning we don't use the 'pen is a good thing.

Now, we need to go on the road and find a way to win some games.

at 4:43 PM Blogger John Fay said...

On pitch counts: Volquez was still throwing 95. It wasn't a hot day. You need pitchers to gradually build there pitch count.

Harang can go 120 without a problem.

at 4:44 PM Blogger Jeff said...

“Big Red Machine..did not have great pitching..a good bullpen..but not great pitching..It was the everyday field players that made that team so great..”

It never ceases to amaze me how willing he is to make baseless statements like this, just to try to back up some emotionally driven opinion. The Reds, in fact, had an extremely good starting rotation.

The ’75 Reds starting rotation:

Don Gullett 15-4 2.42 ERA
Gary Nolan 15-9 3.16 ERA
Fred Norman 12-4 3.73 ERA
Pat Darcy 11-5 3.58 ERA
Jack Billingham 15-10 4.11 ERA

at 4:48 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Jon..lets not attack other bloggers.

Running a good team is a combination of many variables..far too lengthy to debate

If you are suggesting that WK and Castellini have run this organization correctly..how do you explain the mess we are in?

In addition to the majority of the bloggers, every sports expert, both locally and nationally feel that this team is put together very poorly

Smokey..the keyword is quality..

at 4:52 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Indy Cat.. I am not blaming WK in entirety..AS Wayne said last week.."maybe Jocketty can better manage Bob"

speaks volumes

at 4:56 PM Blogger pootyhead said...

All 4 home runs hit in the second inning where into to a pretty stiff wind. Not one of them was cheap! Yes I was sitting around three of the four. None of Votto's where cheap either.

As for Volquez staying in after 100+ pitches he still was dealing some nasty stuff. To strike out D. Lee to end his day was fitting.

Cubs fans were unusually silent today.

at 4:57 PM Blogger ryan said...

Watch the redlegs reel off about eight in a row! We're gonna catch the cardinals...watch and see baby! Volquez is freaking nasty!

at 5:02 PM Blogger IndyCat said...

Oh, and by the way, the Big Red Machine had Gary Nolan (75-46, 3.35), Don Gullett (91-44, 2.87), and Jack Billingham (96-63, 3.64 from 72-76), not to mention Jim Merritt (20 wins in 1970), Wayne Simpson (14 wins in 1970, 8 in '72), Ross Grimsley (14-8 in '72, 13-8 in '73).

Not Hall of Fame pitchers to match the position players, but still a pretty good starting staff.

at 5:12 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

118 pitches is nothing. How many did Mario Soto routinely throw? Baseball is a nine inning game, has been for a long, long time. Quit babying these guys, my god. Good pitchers routinely threw 300 innings, pitched every 4th day and let the hitters tell them when they were finished. Now the players are bigger, stronger, in better shape and can't throw a complete game. Ridiculous!

at 5:18 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

I think that it is pretty clear that Mr. C. has been behind many more moves than we know with the Patterson revelation.

I understand your point rickdinchicago, but a good company man takes the heat for management, especially when you believe in management, which Wayne seemed to.

If Wayne would have realized that he would be judged by the first 20 games of 08, you think he hires Dusty Baker?

I read this now that Mr. C tells him to improve, get a big name, sign Dunn and Patterson et al, and we will judge you after 20 games????

I credit Wayne for being a good company man, and not depleting the farm system so that he can go 16-4 to save his job

at 5:22 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Jack and I do not often agree, but I agree with his post (the Mr. C management part). Wayne got worse than he deserved:

Indy Cat.. I am not blaming WK in entirety..AS Wayne said last week.."maybe Jocketty can better manage Bob"

speaks volumes

at 5:36 PM Blogger Tyler said...

Jeff, the '75 Reds did NOT have an "extremely good" rotation. They were average. Just blindly posting ERAs does not provide any meaningful means of assessment. You have to know what the average ERA is. In 1975, the average NL ERA was 3.60, which is about a full run lower than it is today. Measuring by this standard, Gullett was outstanding, Nolan was very good, Norman and Darcy were about average, and Billingham was below average.

Then you have to factor in that Gullett pitched the fewest innings of the 5, and was replaced by two pitchers who performed poorly, Clay Kirby (4.72) and Tom Carroll (4.98).

Overall, it seems to me that the rotation was nothing to get too excited about. It was probably a bit above average, which of course, is all you need when you have such a great defensive team combined with a dominant bullpen, and...oh yeah, one of the best offenses of all time.

at 5:54 PM Blogger Jon said...


I think the Patterson signing was stupid. Big news there. I agree with you on the nature of the contracts to Coffey, Stanton, Castro, and Freel. All two years. But I disagree that they were totally bad signings because they had prospects of contributing. Coffey was good enough in 06 to take a look. Stanton had many rings. Freel may still earn his keep after being injured last year. There are others, but WK did a pretty good job. Like I said, he's made something of this pitching staff, and everybody feels good about that. Why are we in a mess so far? The meat of the lineup has to hit, right? That's all really.

at 6:33 PM Blogger Steve said...

118 pitches with a 9 run lead. And Dusty wonders where he got that reputation on starting pitchers..

DUSTY AND THE PITCH COUNT...GET OVER IT!! He's been babying Cueto and Volquez. Let it go! So pathetic.

at 6:48 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Wow tyler, the 75 Reds,
I'll take 210 innings by Gary Nolan at 3.16 and call him a stud in that yard. same with Fred Norman 12-4, 3.73 and 188 innings.

I think their pitching was overshadowed by the team in the field. Pedro 2.95, Carrol 2.62, McElroy 2.47 and Eastwicks 2.60 made Captain Hook's job a no brainer.

Billingham at 200 innings and 4.11 was not bad. Gulletts 160 innings at 2.42. Even Darcy's 130 innings at 3.68 are not bad

The 75 team had very good pitching. Dodgers had better starters, but I'll take our Pen and beat em

at 7:02 PM Blogger Santa said...

I second the declare today 'Joey Votto Day'!

Reds: Great game today.

John: It would be nice if we had a ignore feature.

Hint Hint.

Red's fan in East Tenn.

at 7:26 PM Blogger Tyler said...


That was my point--the rotation wasn't bad!

1 outstanding
1 very good
2 average
1 below average/servicable
2 poor

To me, that evens out to slightly above average.

My point was responding to the premise that the rotation was somehow the secret to that team's success that has been unfairly overshadowed by the great defensive players up the middle and a lineup for the ages.

I think the bullpen better qualifies for such a distinction.

Again, this is no knock on the rotation--it was above average. But the bullpen was excellent and I think played a larger role in the team's success than is often credited.

at 7:28 PM Blogger redsfan8557 said...

I love all the negativity. Why cant we just be happy about the win. A wins a win and god knoow we need all we can get right now. I dont know baseball as well as all of you guys, but I do know I love going to the Reds game and enjoying the fans and the game

at 8:36 PM Blogger Clinton said...

To the person that thought Thom should be on the TV:
I thought Thom Brennaman did great on the radio today. Brantley is great too.
Putting Thom on the TV would make the TV less boring. I usually mute the TV and put Brennaman/Brantley on.

Great homer day! Too bad almost all of them were solo ones. Could've done some SERIOUS damage like that 22-3 win over Philly in 1999.
Volquez is great but I'm hoping that 120 pitches lasts him longer into the game down the road.

at 9:41 AM Blogger Zach in MO said...

I'm very happy the Reds won & took the series. But, I think this is a horrible win for the Reds. All last week on the road trip, everyone on this blog was screaming for the player to stop swinging for the fences & start making solid contact. Winning with 9 runs scored on 7 homers will only encourage some of our players to continue to swing away. Don't get me wrong, I'll take any Reds victory & maybe it was just a fluke thing today w/ everyone having some good wood. I'm just afraid this will lead to more free swinging, 4 hit, 0 run games that we have already had too many of this year.

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