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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007

Griffey trade talk

I just talked to Wayne Krivsky. I asked him about what Ken Griffey Jr. said to Peter Gammons about believing he'll be traded before the deadline.

Krivsky would sooner undergo a root canal than talk about trades.

"I'm not going to talk about lists," Krivsky said. "I don't have a list. Some guys are harder to trade for contractual reasons. But I'm not going to get into untouchables."

Griffey is a 10-and-5 guy so he can rejection any trade. I've got a call into his agent to see if the Reds have talked about which teams Griffey would be willing to go to.

I think the perception is out there that the Reds are about to begin a fire sale.

"I don't worry about perceptions," Krivsky said. "I worry about reality. We're trying to make quality baseball decisions whether they help us win games now or later."


53 Comments:

at 4:04 PM Blogger Brad said...

You would get better answers asking the wall. Krivsky should just refuse interview requests instead of giving non-answers.

 
at 4:12 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would the Reds trade their only potential drawing card for the rest of the year?

It just seems like you and the rest of the sports writers and radio show talking heads have a burr up your butts about trading Griffey.

 
at 4:35 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I don't think the Reds should or will trade Griffey.

 
at 4:39 PM Anonymous Gary214 said...

I have been a fan since the late 50's....have endured the ups and downs, but have always backed the team...spend $$$ by going to the games...watch on TV when I can't. But if this GM subjects the fan base to yet another 'fire sale', that's it....I am done. The one that needs to stand on a corner with a FOR SALE sign sticking out his ass is Krivsky! If the owner/GM cant' put a CONSISTENT team on the field, then fold up the tents and move to a bigger city!! I am tired of this crap!!!

 
at 4:58 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the Reds keep Griffey through 2009 while they prepare for their outfield of the future: Josh Hamilton, Jay Bruce and maybe Joey Votto.

I think they'll try and trade Adam Dunn for some pitching prospects.

 
at 5:21 PM Blogger Chad said...

But John, do you think Griffey wants traded?

 
at 5:22 PM Blogger Chad said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
at 5:27 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I don't think he does. When we asked hiom about it a few weeks ago, he said he wouldn't ask to be traded.

 
at 5:28 PM Anonymous Justin Fernandez said...

Gary214 is right. Krivsky needs to go before he gives away a Griffey or Dunn for another set of 5.00 ERA relievers.

 
at 5:33 PM Blogger RedsFanInMD said...

Brad-Why should Krivsky tell the world what his plans are? I don't see any benefit in him telling the world that I am going to trade Player A, Player B and Player C.

Griffey will not be traded. I don't think Dunn will be traded. I do think that Weathers, Hatteberg, Conine and Lohse will be traded.

 
at 5:49 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

For what it's worth, I hope the Reds keep Griffey. It's truly been a pleasure to see him be healthy and play like the Hall of Famer he is. Sometimes, though, I don't think Reds fans deserve him. The abuse he's taken for his injuries - all of which occurred playing the game as it is meant to be played - make one wonder just how great a baseball town Cincinnati really is.
- Monroe in Chelsea

 
at 6:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wouldn't ask and what he wants are two different items altogether. By stating he wouldnt ask for a trade he keeps up a positive public image. That does not be he doesn't WANT to be traded. If he can go to a contender I bet he is gone. I hope I am wrong for I have followed his career since his days in San Bernardino (A Ball) and have always been a huge fan.

We, as Reds fans, need to realize that this team whether in its current state or the ones that were similar the past few seasons have not been able to win games (over .500). I think trading some of this talent away is not a bad thing. As long as the ownership commits to putting better players on the field. An example is Kearns and Lopez (I know, I know). I would take Gonzales and Hamilton over both of them today. That is how your make up for trading away popular players. Remember folks, winning is not a popularity contest!!!!

 
at 6:56 PM Blogger Jerry the Louse said...

We know Cincinnati loves Jr. However the Reds must think about the entire scheme of things. If trading Griffey improves the team in the long run, do it. If not, of course he isn't traded. The questions it be answered are: Who's going to guide the ship? then Which direction is the ship headed?

 
at 6:58 PM Anonymous Gary214 said...

Trading some of the talent for the good of the organization is not the point, nor will it be what Krivsky does. Sure the bullpen needs to be developed, but you are NOT going to do it with the Cormier's, Stanton's, etc of the world. We have no consistent talent in that arena because we have had no consistent talent in those responsible for developing pitchers, much less trading for them. You cannot build an organization with 2nd rate coaches/teachers that are going to be replaced every year! In my opinion, we had a good teacher/coach in Gullett, but he was canned for not being able to make something out of nothing! And that nothing was what the GM gave him to work with. Krivsky is doing the same thing...the only difference between him and Bowden is instead of "5-tool players" we are now stuck on "pitching and defense"! Correct me if I am wrong, but how often has that Minnesota philosophy taken that team to the promised land the last several years?

Again...he conducts a fire sale and I am done!

 
at 7:36 PM Anonymous Gary214 said...

John, can Votto hit lefties? The kid needs to before coming to The Show...the last thing we, of limited payroll, need is to waste more $$$ on 2 players who only play one position and alternate depending on what arm is being thrown at us!

 
at 7:48 PM Anonymous Gary214 said...

Yes, sorry, it is me again. This firesale talk has me going tonight!! I say we leave the team alone... see what a pen of Everyday Eddie, Stormy, Bray, McBeth,Stanton (and what the hell...give Livingston a shot!)can do for the rest of the year...Give Dunn a Giftcard to Bass Pro Shop for every hit he gets with RISP...and let's see what happens!!! Hell, if they at least come close to the kind of team I have seen the last 6 games for the remainder of the year...I will be a happy camper!!!

Dammit Krivsky, don't make me an Indians fan!!!

 
at 7:53 PM Anonymous mikec said...

A) I don't think the Reds will have a firesale. If they trade Hatteberg, Conine, Weathers, Loshe and Griffey/Dunn that's not a firesale. That's just planning for the future. Now if they trade Dunn and Griffey and deal Arroyo, Freel and anyone else with more than two years experience, that's a firesale.
B) Making the first slate of trades listed above makes sense. This team is a few parts away from being good. Deal guys who don't fit the mold like Dunn and get some guys who could help the team down the road.
C) Almost no GM in baseball would give a straight answer to the question John asked. It's John's job to ask it, but don't make Krivsky a bad guy for not answering.
D) Castellini and Krivsky have had control for two seasons now. The Reds were competitive last year and have mostly been hurt by bad luck this year. So the "If the owner/GM cant' put a CONSISTENT team on the field, then fold up the tents and move to a bigger city!!" comments are off the mark. Don't judge on such a short time period. Krivsky and Castellini inherited a fundamentally flawed team with too many left-handed bats, little pitching, little speed, few minor leaguers close to being ready for the bigs, a horrible defense, no clutch hitting and no hope in the bullpen.

 
at 8:09 PM Blogger daniel said...

John-
Do you think that Mr. Krivsky is gunshy about trading after the debacle that was last years blockbuster?

 
at 8:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Keep the team as it is, win games and make us Red fans proud.

 
at 9:09 PM Blogger robby said...

Kind of humorous to read anyone still suggesting that the Reds trade with the Nats was a good one because it freed up room for Gonzalez and Hamilton. The Reds trade with the Nats to date could only be labled as a big mistake. The bottom line is not the fantasy league stats of players but wins and losses. The Reds went into the break last year one game over five hundred, in contention for a division title. They went in to the break this year in last place, with no hope of a title. How is that an improvement? I'm sure there is not a single GM who would take Lopez over Gonzalez, but the Reds could have signed Gonzalez and traded Lopez for someone who might improve the team. To say Hamilton is an upgrade over Kearns after only three months of major league compettion is premature to say the very least. I'm more than happy to give Krivsky credit when it is due, but at this point how can anyone say the Nats trade helped the Reds become a better team. The hope for Reds' fans is that Krivsky might have learned a little bit from that trade to do a better job of moving players should the decision be made to unload Dunn, Hatteberg, etc.

 
at 9:27 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eduardo Perez is doing a good job broadcasting the AAA All star game.

 
at 9:50 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The discussion of trades really comes back to Paul Daugherty's point. All the fan's really want is for Krivsky to suss out the overarching plan for putting a quality product on the field. Despite the fact he made the worst trade in the history of the franchise, most folks are willing to give Krivsky more time to get it together, but the guy is a complete neophyte when it comes to fielding questions. He understandably bristles at questions about specifics when it comes to trades, but fails to give the press or the fans any sense of where he's going with this team. Like bunting, it's really not that complicated. The Reds have numerous position players (Dunn, Griffey, and Ross are the main culprits) who possess jaw-dropping power, but strike out a lot, fail to move runners over, and consistently fail to get hits (read: singles and doubles) with runners in scoring position. These guys are also major defensive liabilities. Despite his comendable efforts to improve, Dunn is a terrible fielder with a minus arm. Griffey is a good fielder who's lost a step or three because of age and injuries, has a minus arm, and is about as receptive to the fans as Krivsky is to the press. Frankly, I'd rather have a guy like Mike Cameron or Grady Sizemore. Even when they suck, they smile and hustle. That's more than you can say for Dunn and Griffey ... and Ross is simply a horrible catcher. This line that management keeps feeding us about how well he handles pitches is a specious argument. Ross doesn't block balls well, and has a minus arm. After LaRue got off to a slow start last year, largely because of knee surgery, Krivsky and Narron kicked him to the curb. Whether you agree with that decision or not, Ross is hitting about the same this year, yet he continues to get the lion's share of the starts because of his salary. Trading Dunn and Griffey is in the long term interests of the club. The Reds won't get much for Dunn because he's one-dimensional. An AL contender might give up a solid starting pitching prospect who will be major league ready in a year or so if the Reds will eat a portion of Dunn's contract, but they won't give up a #1-#5 starter. Who cares? This year is a write-off. I'd rather have Homer Bailey, Jr. than Adam Dunn any day. Griffey's a different story. Given his numbers, the Reds probably can get a good major league starter for him now, and Griffey is clearly amenable to going back to Seattle, Seattle is contending, and the town would welcome him back. Even if all you get back is a bunch of fine young cannibals (i.e., prospects), you're way ahead of the game because, in addition to the guys you pick up, you dump a defensive liability and a significant salary that can be used next year in free agency. A few years ago, the Twins traded A.J. Pierzynski to the Giants and got prospects who turned out to be Liriano and Nathan, among others. The Reds might not be so fortunate, but again, who cares? Negotiate the best combo of guys you can and let's get on it with. I would also suggest trading Weathers. He's a decent closer, but he'll never be Bobby Jenks, and the Reds need so much help at so many positions, why hold onto to a guy like that in a year that is lost? Finally, in connection with these moves, the Reds need to hire a good spin-doctor to help Krivsky develop a byline. The guy is completely wooden, and can't begin to explain the business plan. Bob Castellini is a master businessman. Surely he can understand the value of PR, and Reds' deficiencies in this area.

 
at 10:06 PM Blogger Mark said...

To the front office winning would be nice but they put a higher premium on people in the stands. Since it doesn't seem that losing is really keeping away from the ballpark you have to ask, why do people cough up $$$ for mediocrity? Answer is you have a couple marquee names in the lineup. That's why Dunn and Jr. stay the rest of the season. Fact is, if your regualr lineup consists of 8 "Juan Castros," then attendance will take a dive.

 
at 10:10 PM Anonymous Justin Fernandez said...

For the millionth time, Lopez is a better player and has a better future by far than A-Gone, and they got crap in exchange for Kearns and Lopez. Don't try to defend a dumb give-away! Hamilton could have been brought to Cincinnati without the Lopez-Kearns-for-zeroes deal. Krivsky gets a D for the Lopez deal and an A+ for Hamilton...

 
at 10:48 PM Blogger Ron said...

All of the trade talk is about Griffey and Dunn and Hatteberg and Conine. I think the Reds have some more viable possibilities for trades in Sarloos, Livingston, and Ramierez. There are teams that are still in the hunt and need a starting pitcher.

 
at 11:22 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

When was the last an actual "fire sale" helped a team in the long run? Then it turns into a "youth movement". Whatever happened to sticking with your team through thick and thin with the players you have? It's always easy to say it's the highest paid players that need to go - I forget the last time Griffey blew a save. Anyone remember? Get off his back and put the blame where it needs to go - THE PITCHING STAFF - INCLUDING THE COACHES

 
at 12:42 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The media has wanted Griffey out of Cincinnati for years. Their motivation, you'll have to ask them. As for us Cincinnati fans, if the team packed up and left, as some of you suggested, I think would leave those crying in their beer. It wouldn't be Major League Baseball without the Reds in Cincinnati, it would be like not having the Yankees in New York. It will never happen. If it does, this society will have my blood on its hands.

 
at 1:18 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

John, do you think the Reds will trade Dunn? If so, what do you realistically see the Reds getting in return?

I do hope Griffey stays for the remainder of his contract. I've enjoyed watching him play, hurt or not.

I think honestly, the jury is still out on Josh Hamilton. He is going to need to put together a couple of consistent years before he can be classified as a super star. What he has done so far is great, but he still needs to develop as a big leaguer.

 
at 7:49 AM Blogger Jeff Lehner said...

No way Griffey's not a Reds when he hits his 600th. After this year, who knows?

 
at 7:52 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It amazes me to see people that are so in love with 39 year old ken griffey and will die if he is traded. Or to those that suggest that he is the only "drawing power" .

My god put a winning team on the field and people will come.

Nice to see Griffeys meaningless homers... yet the dude still strikes out repeatedly with runners on base and has become average in the field

Hes gonna be 39 years old and Dunn is what 27?. Who has the better upside?

To you Griffey lovers, I respect the man and his accomplishments .. but the majority of us want to see a team that wins and could care less about Ken Griffey.

He should be traded.. we can do a great deal with his 12 million a year..

Also, if you all have not noticed.. and the same happened in Seattle when he was there.. the focus always seems to be on Ken Griffey and his relationship with the community , the press and his individual statistics

Its gotten old

 
at 8:14 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the person who says Ross has a weak arm, just one question. Who leads the league in throwing runners out? He is also starting to hit. And, Griffey is still a plus outfielder.

 
at 9:10 AM Blogger Brad said...

Brad-Why should Krivsky tell the world what his plans are? I don't see any benefit in him telling the world that I am going to trade Player A, Player B and Player C.

I'm not sayiong tell people what your plans are, I'm saying don't say anything at all. Don't take questions if you aren't going to answer them.

 
at 9:15 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

That would of been Justin who gave the questionable insight on three of the Reds.

Bottom line: Griffey can help them over the next three years if not more (see Bonds). Dunn could make a decision and become what he could be or always be a 'what he could of been' player. The Reds need one of them, and maybe not both. Unless the Reds get a very good if not excellent reliever + for one of them, I wouldn't trade either.

One defense of the Kearns trade. The Reds good nothing at this point for a decent set up guy, a horrible fielding SS who bats .250ish, and .260 hitting outfielder who couldn't hit with guys on and struck out almost as much as his buddy Dunn. You can almost say the Resd got nothing for nothing, but I bet you Bray turns out better than the reliever they traded away. Outside of that one move, Krisky has been a very good GM (minus interviews). An the worst trade the Reds made was when they got rid of a ahll of famer named Robinson in the 60s...

 
at 9:17 AM Blogger Redleggs said...

To Anonymous at 8:50, Griffey is still a solid defensive outfielder and his arm is 100 times better than Dunn's (did you see the assist in the All-Star game?). And he is a solid hitter. He is just as consistant with base-hits as he is with home runs.

As for David Ross, yes he is God-awful at the plate, but he is one of the best defensive catchers in the League right now. He is leading the league in baserunners thrown out, so how can you claim he has no arm? Not to mention he calls a great game.

Why don't you watch/listen to some games before you post next time?

 
at 9:26 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love Griffey, however I do believe that he has completely forgotten how to hit the cutoff man. After viewing some recent games, I think sometimes that the Reds would be better off if he just ran the ball in and handed to the cutoff man!

That being said, you don't trade Griffey or Dunn "just to trade them" especially Dunn. In this case, if you are getting nothing for him, let him go at the end of the season, ie. do not pick up his $13 MM offer, spend that money elsewhere and pick up #1 draft choices when he signs elsewhere. Better that than a couple of guys who probably won't make it beyond Louisville.

 
at 9:26 AM Blogger RCL46 said...

John...how did Eddie G's throwing go yesterday? Is he being sent out for some work? When is he expected back on the Active roster?

 
at 9:29 AM Blogger RCL46 said...

John...how did Eddie G's throwing go yesterday? Is he being sent out for some work? When is he expected back on the Active roster?

 
at 10:35 AM Blogger Mark T said...

It's weird - this seems like a good team with a bad bullpen. I wouldn't monkey with it, other than to find some arms (Bray and Eddie?) but what do I know.

Take eight games blown by the bullpen and add them back and we are 44-44, and in second place.

 
at 11:03 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Griffey is 37 so while the statement that he will be 39 is true because he will get there someday it won't be in the next 365 days. He's playing well and still has a better OF arm than any Red on the team with a name other than Hamilton.

 
at 11:08 AM Blogger Zach said...

Honestly, why is so much attention paid to who we get in return rather than the money a few trades will free up? This team needs rebuilt. The dynamic has been wrong for years.

The idea of spending 25 million on two outfielders on a small market team, when we can't pitch or field, is absurd to an infinite degree. We lead the league in homeruns, but have the 2nd worse record. Congratulations.

The last 6 games has clouded everyone's vision. "We're starting to turn it around!", "We're going to win with Jr.!"....welcome to the last 7 years of your life.

As long as Cincinnati fans prefer "good guys" and sentimental favorites over solid, winning ballclubs you'll continue to get what you pay for...over and over and over.

 
at 12:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was a fan of Griffey until I went to a game his 1st year in Cinci. He hit a ground ball, didn't run hard to 1st. I booed. People around me, including my kids, looked at me like I was crazy. Was he injured even back then? Probably. But he is healthy this year and still doesn't run out grounders. He likes to watch his homers, and I saw him get a single on a ball of the left field wall this season as a result. He is a superstar so he can do what he wants, right? Well, problem is it has rubbed off on teammates, particularly his buddy Dunn, also a great HR watcher. The non running out of grounders has affected the entire team. Somehow they have found many, many ways to lose and I am convinced their lack of hustle and spirit are a big part of this. If they can get value for Griffey, I say trade him first, Dunn second. Get this turned around with people who can and will run (Griffey can't, Dunn won't).

 
at 12:19 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Reds would be stupid enough to trade Griffey while he is in his quest for home run No. 600, they are even more stupid(er) than I thought possible...

And for me it would onely be yet another reason/exuce to tune them out. Football is around the corner, people!

 
at 12:35 PM Anonymous Brad F said...

I get SOOOO frustrated listening to the Krivsky bashers for "the one trade." I'm still happy he made the trade, not necessarily because of the instant results, BUT, because he TRIED to improve the team. How many years have we sat around and did nothing during the season except sell. He TRIED to improve the team, and at least in the short term, it didn't help. The next trade that is made, all of you second guessers need to commit IMMEDIATELY as to whether the trade was good or bad. Waiting for a year to still say it's bad is the easiest thing to do. It was a sellers market and we were buyers. Not always going to get the best value, but, he tried to. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Do you all wish we still had Willy Mo instead of Bronson? How about Brandon Phillips? So one trade didn't work out...I'm sure there is a trade every GM has made, past or present that didn't work out. How about Doggie going to the Expos? How about Frank Robinson? Get over it!!!
You guys are the ones that sit around and say "I knew Enron wasn't a good investment so I stayed away." How much Microsoft stock are you sitting on at $1 share? Your guys aren't even Monday morning QB's...you're more like Wednesday night QB's!

 
at 12:54 PM Anonymous Joe said...

Yes, Griffey is still a plus outfielder until he has another injury. Then what at soon age 38? It's always tough to sell when the market is high. Seattle is calling.

 
at 1:22 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Double standard? MLB.com goes on record saying that the Reds are out of it as well as many others too. Then they go on to say the Astros, who are only 2.5 games above the Reds, could be buyers as they could maek a second half run to catch the Brewers...

Huh? So following such logic, if the Reds trade Dunn for a super star reliever and trade Lohse for other relieving, minor league players the Reds should be contenders by the end of the year.

Are we missing something or is a certain MLB.com reporter one can short of a six pack today?

Adrian

 
at 1:24 PM Blogger Ashland ATeam said...

I love the Dunn bashing - anyone with a knowledge of more than two statistics (strikeouts and batting average) understands that Dunn is a top-level major league outfielder with a bad reputation.

According to Baseball Reference.com, his comparable players through his age are Daryle Strawberry, Jose Canseco and Reggie Jackson; according to ESPN.com's player ratings (based on numbers, not opinion), Dunn is #24 in the NL this year, ahead of such players as Brandon Webb, Ryan Howard, Derrek Lee, Carlos Beltran and Lance Berkman. AND HE'S 27 YEARS OLD!

If they trade him for prospects, we better pray they pan out, or we'll all regret it for years to come.

 
at 1:53 PM Blogger jerseyreds said...

For whatever it's worth Griffey Jr. is only 37 years old. He is the same age as Weathers and Hatteberg.

Actually those three "old timers" have arguably been the most productive players on the Reds this year.

BTW, Bonds is only 2 weeks shy of his 43rd birthday. Imagine if KGJ had stayed healthy these past years.

Even so, if he keeps his health his swing and his desire to play - and does some DHing in the AL in the future, Griffey could very well challenge for the record. Wouldn't that be something?

 
at 2:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

John,

do you think krivsky is done after this year? I've been hearing the Jocketty rumors, and seeing how Castellini acknowledged the role of the weak pitching personnel in place was a large factor in Narron's undoing, I have to believe he's at least on the hot seat..

 
at 2:43 PM Anonymous Justin Fernandez said...

Griffey turns 38 on November 21st. One year might not be a big deal but then again...at 40+ HRs/year...it is a big deal!

 
at 3:32 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I don't think Krivsky is done after this year. The Reds need a little stability in the GM office. The other factor is the team's played well since the managerial change. If that keeps up, you've got to blame Narron for not getting the lost out of the club.

 
at 3:46 PM Blogger Dustin said...

Why couldn't the Reds have kept OB on as a draft coordinator? The guy could flat out draft. Also, he would not have selected D Stubbs with stud pitchers like Lincecum and Joba Chamberlain on the board. The first round from last year could come back to haunt the Reds big time. Drafting a 5 tool outfielder who can't make contact over stud pitchers does not make very much sense.

 
at 3:55 PM Blogger Phill said...

Amazing job to whoever said David Ross has a minus arm and is a horrible catcher defensive speaking...

First off if you notice, he's on pace to match up with his last years numbers as far as RBI's and HR's are concerned. His average is awful and he looks awful at the plate.

Let's look at his defensive stats as compared to other NL catchers.

Ranked 4th for Assists with 36, tied for second in double plays with 5, Only has 5 passed balls on the season,has a very high fielding percentage, has a high range factor. He ranks at the lead or second in runners thrown out percentage. His catchers ERA is 4.35 which is about his career average although in fairness the bullpen has been flat out awful and the starting rotation hasn't exactly been on point.

The point is he isn't a subpar guy defensively it's just his hitting is sketchy.

 
at 8:18 PM Blogger Scott Evans said...

John,

Also note that Griffey's salary is deferred so the Reds would only from a budget/cashflow standpoint only gain 6 million for a trade and a net less than that.

So Griffey is really cheap relatively speaking.

 
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