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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Monday, December 10, 2007

From Cantu

I got an email the other day from Jorge Cantu.

"A little bit surprised? Yes," he wrote. "I really liked the ball club a lot. I thanked them for the opportunity. Now it's time on to test free agency."

He said he had long conversation with Wayne Krivsky.

"It was very professional," Cantu wrote. "(Krivsky) said it was a baseball decision."

It will be interesting to see how the whole Rule 5 Draft thing works out. The Reds didn't protect Carlos Guevara, who got snapped up. They released Cantu to make room for a pick. And they picked Sergio Valenzuela.

I'm sure we'll spend a lot of time comparing the stats of those three. Krivsky said the Rule 5 comes down to pure scouting. This is chance to see how the Reds are doing in that regard.


at 3:08 PM Blogger Jay11 said...

I really thought he could be a nice contributor to the club. I hope he lands on his feet. He's got a lot of potential. John, any update on Bedard or a deal possibly getting done? I'd like to think the Reds will add a starter or two by this time next month.

at 3:28 PM Anonymous Ken said...

I have to at least give Krivsky the benefit of the doubt, but when he says that a guy with a 7.12 ERA in Single A ball has a shot at the rotation, he really tests that trust.

at 3:39 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

John what do you think of the chance of getting Bedard and Leiber? I think Leiber would be a great 4 or 5 starter... What do you think?

at 3:42 PM Blogger BrettWV said...

John what do you think of the chances of the Reds getting Bedard and Leiber? I think Leiber would be a great 4 or 5 starter. And if I can remember right he has pitched great at GABP. Just want to know what you think...

at 3:47 PM Blogger redsfaninrochester said...

I'm surprised by his release also, thought he would be a nice right handed hitting 1st base contributor. As for the Bedard thoughts, what would be your timeline if, this trade was to happen John?

at 3:50 PM Blogger redsfaninrochester said...

I also thought he would be a nice contributor. John, if the Bedard trade is being thought of, what do you think the time frame would be?

at 3:58 PM Blogger docproc said...

This Cantu thing still doesn't make sense. Krivsky saw enough promise in him to trade two players and "future considerations" for him, then Cantu played well in his limited time on the club. Then he (and his right-handed bat) gets dumped unceremoniously to pick up a Rule 5 pitcher with some lousy stats? It's hard for me to think there isn't something more going on...

at 4:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anything to the Mike Cameron rumor?

at 5:40 PM Anonymous mikec said...

Why would the Reds want Mike Cameron when they have more outfielders than they know what to do with?

at 5:53 PM Anonymous buford said...

cameron is out for 50 games i think because of the drug testing program...that doesn't make any sense...but i did read that somewhere.

at 6:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

cantu is this years brendan harris the reds just let him go
good luck jorge. hope you you stay in nl.

at 6:33 PM Blogger kingseyeland said...

Krivsky's Cantu shenanigans have resulted in the net loss of 3 pitchers: Guevara, Shackelford, and Medlock, at least one of which could help this bullpen more than Sergio Valenzuela.

If Cantu isn't named in the Mitchell report or something, then this series of moves looks, well, pretty stupid.

at 6:47 PM Blogger redsfaninrochester said...

MLB.com reports some from the Baltimore organization were suprised to here a insider from the Reds say the trade for Bedard is 75%. I wonder how close it really is, or is this some ploy to put pressure on the Orioles?

at 7:03 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Krivsky's an idiot, he's always been an idiot, and he'll always be an idiot.

The guy can never make up his mind as to what he's doing, as is evidenced by this team leading the world in transactions since his hire.

He traded for Cody Ross - a hard-nosed, solid bench player, then turned around and gave him away; he traded for Brandon Harris, then turned around and gave him away; now we get Cantu, and he turns around and dumps him!

In the meantime Jerry Gill is still on the 40 man roster, as if other teams would have been salivating uncontrolably in the rule 5 draft!

at 10:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brendan Harris and Cody Ross are not the players that were going to put the Reds over. I fully understand everyones distatste of Krivsky but man use better examples.

at 11:32 PM Anonymous buford said...

are we really talking about harris, ross, medlock, shackelford, and cantu being the missing links to this team? not good...krivsky has been cleaning house the past two years, those guys were all career minor leaguers at best (exception cantu)...give me a break...who's next? holbert? how about mays? you've got to be kidding me...the rays liked harris so much last year they traded him to the twins.

at 3:32 AM Blogger kingseyeland said...

I don't recall saying those players are "missing links," but thanks for putting words in my mouth, guys. Always easier to argue when you make up stuff to argue with. (You can tell it's December around here.)

Point is, Krivsky's Cantu business cost the organization 3 relievers that are actually closer to major league ready than the guy he got in the Rule 5 draft. The Rule 5 is a bigger crapshoot than simply keeping a Medlock or Guevara and seeing what they can do.

Guevara went prior to Valenzuela in the Rule 5 draft. Ought to tell you something, especially considering the storied history of the Reds' scouting department. Bold prediction: Guevara makes his team out of spring training and has a serviceable career while Valenzuela gets sold back for a net loss of $25k + Cantu + 3 relievers.

Would any of those 3 relievers "put this Reds team over the top"? No. But when your bullpen sucks as bad as this one, and relief pitching is so hard to come by that you pay $11m a year for a 65-inning closer, then you can't be giving relief prospects away.

Anyone want to explain why Jerry Gil is still on the 40-man? Who can contribute more to the team, Cantu or Gil?

Nah...too much logic...sorry.

at 4:57 AM Anonymous Redsfan45 said...

it will really show it was a dumb move if Votto is traded for Bedard!! plus didnt WK say Cantu was a RBI machine??? welll we dont need that do we?? and to think Majewski was saved, Gil was saved from rule 5 protection and the guy they let slip away was BETTER than the guy they picked, makes me scared of our scouts!!!

not to mention the Reds are now VERY lacking from the Right side of the plate off the bench!!

at 8:09 AM Anonymous Sarasota Sandy said...

John, is it a true that Jeff Maltsby has been removed as the Director of Florida Operations? Thoughts, feelings, ideas?

at 9:23 AM Blogger Clueless Krivsky said...

Annon 7:03 is right,

It's not about Ross or Harris or Cantu being the missing pieces (though I think you'd have a tough argument suggesting they would not have helped our bench tremendously), it's about Krivsky continuously spinning his wheels and being incapable of sticking with a decision once he makes it.

These are all signs of a bigger problem; our GM can't make up his stinking mind!!

One day Cueto's in single A, the next he's in AA, then he's dominating in AAA, only to be sent back down to AA for no good reason whatsoever. Then Cueto can't get a September call-up because he's thrown to many innings, then the next thing ya know he's pitching in winter ball.

I know, I know, "it's a baseball decision."

I'm guessing we have the GM that other GMs laugh and make fun of behind his back because he's a bumbling fool.

at 9:34 AM Blogger John Fay said...

It'strue that Jeff is out. Not sure why. He'll be missed.

at 9:56 AM Anonymous buford said...

there's no reason to get offended kings, just state your point...there simply wasn't enough room on the roster for all those guys and for some reason krivsky thought cantu was expendable as was harris because of keppinger and freel (at the time)...you have to trust the guy, i mean phillips and hamilton came to this team for mere pennies, right? cantu wasn't starting in tampa...he was in double-a. they've got decent player development down there.
guevara is 25, with a history of injuries and hasn't pitched above double-a. good numbers though. you hate to lose a guy like that, but you can't protect everyone. most scouts will tell you that numbers are overrated anyway. hence, taking valenzuela.
burton worked out rather well, i think a guy with two maybe three plus pitches is worth a shot. especially in the bullpen.

at 10:17 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

You miss the point. Instead, realize it's not like we haven't seen shackelford could do and it wasn't a whole bunch. Other guys might turn out or they might not. Everyone was complaining a few years back the Chris Booker should be up here and when he got here look at what happened. Its possible it could happen to all the pitchers you have mentioned and its also possible it might not.

The Reds found a couple who good players last year in the rule 5 and I will give them the benifit of doubt on this one.

So try not to get all bent out of shape when someone questions your post. No one is puting word in your mouth,we read what you say and respond according. You should feel somewhat complimented that people respond to your post.

You'd would be a little more easier to handle if you weren't so gung ho on ripping Krivsky on all and every thing he does. And wouldn't take it so personal when someone disagrees with you
Anon 10:13

at 10:21 AM Blogger reaganspad said...

Let's see, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, Jeff Keppinger, Norris Hopper, Josh Hamilton, Jerrod Burton....

You guys are moaning about Cantu, who Tampa Bay designated to the bench?

Remember also, that the most sought after ML pitcher today was a rule 5 draftee

Somebody missed something there, and Minnesota (with Krivsky) saw something. Santana wasn't Cy Young the next year, but the guy we drafted is lefthanded with a 95 mph heater.

IF he controls his stuff and wins 13 games, most of you would trade our top 4 prospects for him.

it cost us Cantu? OK

at 10:44 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the removal of Maltsby a possible move to bring in Mackanin? Any news on if he will be part of the Reds in any way next year ?

at 10:51 AM Blogger Henry said...

Did anyone ever consider that Cantu's name is on the Mitchell report? Names are coming out this month? Recall he had one big season in Tampa Bay and hasn't done a thing since.

at 11:02 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cantu is really a non-issue. Yes he did a good job off the bench, but think about this----the bench is getting fairly deep, considering Freel and Castro are expected to be healthy much sooner than expected, Encarnacion is not likely to be traded (even though he's a much more valuable bargaining chip than either Bailey or Bruce), so Keppinger won't be the evryday 3B and Hopper is the best right handed pinch hitter we can find. So Cantu would not be getting much of a chance.

Now, I'm sure a lot of you are outraged now and asking one or more of the following:

But wasn't Cantu going to platoon with Votto at 1B?
Why should there be a platoon at all? Votto has proven for the last several years he can handle the job on a regular basis. You complain about him being a one dimentional player like Casey and Morris, wich is crap. How you going to score any runs without runners on base? As many have pointed out, Dunn and Griffey can't hit homers evry inning of evry game. We need spray hitters who can get on base and set the table.

I think Hopper should play evryday!~
Wrong. Hopper's hitting style is perfect for pinch situations. Laying down a bunt single with runners on is his specialty. This should only be used evry now and then or else opposing teams will catch on and play him in evrytime. Easy double play, at least two per game if he starts. And let's face it, there is no power there.

What do we need Freel or Castro for? They suck.
Also wrong. They can both play multiple positions. Freel can run and he plays all out. You won't see him sleepwalk thru a game. Castro was brought back for two things, his fielding and his leadership abilities. Both are very valuable things for a reserve player. It's very important to have someone of his personality in the clubhouse.

Oh, and for all of you complaining about the 3 relievers they gave away for Cantu. GET REAL! First of all it was only two----Medlock and Shackleford. Medlock will never make it and Shackleford will never make it back. It's not like they gave away the next Jeff Shaw and John Franco. Plus we also got a good outfield prospect.

at 11:15 AM Anonymous J-Diggety said...

I'd like it better if he was actually lefthanded Reaganspad.

The Reds picked Sergio Valenzuela in the Rule 5 Draft. He's a 23-year-old right-hander from Mexico.

at 12:52 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Let's see, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, Jeff Keppinger, Norris Hopper, Josh Hamilton, Jerrod Burton....You guys are moaning about Cantu, who Tampa Bay designated to the bench?"

Your logic doesn't make sense-those guys were designated to the scrap heap in their organizations too. So are you saying we shouldn't have picked them up?

at 1:41 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This Cantu thing still doesn't make sense. Krivsky saw enough promise in him to trade two players and "future considerations" for him, then Cantu played well in his limited time on the club. Then he (and his right-handed bat) gets dumped unceremoniously to pick up a Rule 5 pitcher with some lousy stats? It's hard for me to think there isn't something more going on..."

--I can't stand Krivsky. Cantu has a great career ahead of him, and it's hard to find any available players whose best years are anywhere close to Cantu's one good season. The Cantu release was one of Krivsky's worst moves.

at 11:45 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good thinking, Hopper's .370ish avg. in August and September should only be used in a "pinch."

Certainly don't want that guy playing everyday and getting on base as a leadoff hitter, God forbid!

There are some real idiots posting on here!

at 12:27 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

How many RBI did Hopper have all year? 14 or so? Even for a lead off hitter, that's not good. I don't even know if there's a stat for this, but how many runners did he move up when runners were on base? How many runners who were on base when he came up eventually scored? If you can come up with an impressive (and verifyable) number for these stats, maybe we can talk about how Hopper and his .370 average should be starting evryday.
Eddie Milner never hit as high as Hopper, but he averaged out 35 RBI a year. And he certainly stole more bases

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