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Reds Insider
From news of the day to news of the weird, John Fay provides a glimpse of what it’s like to cover the Cincinnati Reds

John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Thursday, December 6, 2007

Winter Meetings: It's a wrap

What Wayne Krivsky said in the final pow wow with writers at the Winter Meetings spoke volumes:

"I would like to have done something if it improved the ballclub. I feel good about our team right now. We added (Francisco) Cordero as a major piece to the team. We want to solidify the starting rotation, see if we can add an arm or two to compete for one of those spots."

A couple of days ago the Reds were hopeful about getting Erik Bedard or Dan Haren or Dontrelle Willis. Those are not guys you bring to compete for spots in the rotation. Those are guys you pencil in for 35 starts. The Reds haven't given up on that, but it doesn't sound hopeful.

“There’s always that possibility," Krivsky said. "We’re not ruling that out either."

But it seems much more likely that the Reds will sign a low-level free agent -- Brett Tomko, Jon Lieber, etc. -- than pull off a big trade. The only player they added at the Meetings was Jose Valenzuela, a 23-year-old right-hander they picked in the Rule 5 draft. He was 1-3 with 7.00 ERA in Single-A last season.

Krivsky said right now Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo and Matt Belisle are the only ones assured spots in the rotation. Homer Bailey has the inside track to the fourth spot. The fifth spot? Hard to say.


"That's the way stands right," Krivsky. "It's a long way to spring training. It depends on what happens."


54 Comments:

at 12:18 PM Blogger Don said...

What has Belisle done to be assured of a starting spot? If Krisvky is all about bringing in an abundance of pithcers to have them compete for a starting job, then why go ahead and just hand Belisle the starting job? Shouldn't a pitcher with a 5.32 ERA the season before have to prove himself worthy of a spot in the rotation? I mean this is a guy that gave up more earned runs than any other Reds pitcher last season.

Ideally I was hoping for,in no particular order, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, and someone else acquired via a trade. So much for that.

 
at 1:17 PM Anonymous CHEVIOT SPORTS AUTHORITY said...

Why even waste time and money on guys like Tomko or Lieber? Haven't they learned their lesson yet? I was amazed at the Cordero signing and even hopeful that they were headed in the right direction. Now its starting to sound like the same Krivsky who was happy with his team last season. Who really made that Cordero signing? It must have been Castellini. If Belisle is your third or fourth starter and Arroyo is a number two you are in for another long losing season.
I guess the only hope is Bailey and Cueto and as I said last July, there is something wrong with Bailey or he was just tremendously over-rated. Hope I am wrong on that one but that is a rare occasion.

 
at 1:40 PM Anonymous good grief said...

have you seen the FA market???? and if you're wanting them to acquire guys via trade..who do you see them going after..and who are u willing to give up??? its not that easy...if we want a top pitcher were going to have to give up guys like Bruce, Votto, etc. (and not just one of them)...not guys like hopper, freel, hatteburg or even hamilton and Dunn....those guys arent going to bring big P who already have made themselves MLB ready

 
at 1:41 PM Anonymous doerr906 said...

Let's just say I am utterly, totally, completely, aggravatingly underwhelmed!
Go get the top-tier starting pitchers!!
Lieber, Tomko, Wells, Rusch, etc.=another season of losing. We're at 7 and counting--all patience with the countless rebuilding seasons is already lost.
Win and win now!

 
at 1:47 PM Anonymous Rob said...

I'm sure glad that Krivsky is happy with a 90-loss team. Maybe with Cordero they'll only lose 85.

 
at 1:58 PM Anonymous MONEY MIKE said...

I think it is safe to say that most of Reds Nation is dissapointed with what resulted in the Winter Meetings. I know this isnt the only time you can get a deal done, but I guess well have to wait and see about if they sign someone in the near future. As for Cheviot Sports Authority, I think its funny that you just basically said your always right. If thats the case, you should def. take over the GM spot and then we would always win.

 
at 2:26 PM Blogger NC Reds Fan said...

Cheviot sports authority, yeah you, and everyone, including the Reds, said something was wrong with Bailey last year. He had a groin injury and that brought down his velocity. He'll be great this year. Everyone needs to get a grip. Yeah they've been saying were "rebuilding" for years now, but we actually just started when Krisvky took over. We are just starting to see the fruits of that coming up now (Baliy, Cueto, Bruce) and you want to trade all of that a way for a pitcher that we wont even be able to have for more then a year or two. Kriv is doing the right thing. There is no need to make a big trade just to get on sports center. Hold on to the prospects if nothing fits and let them play. They are better then any talent we've had in a longtime.

 
at 2:31 PM Anonymous Reed said...

I'm sure they wanted Bedard as bad as all of we fans do, but the Orioles were in the stronger bargaining position and obviously set their sights out of the stratosphere. If Bailey and another prospect wasn't good enough, then I'd hate to see them make a deal out of desperation. No way I give up a 20 year old Jay Bruce who looks like Griffey Jr. at the same age. Bedard would be perfect though, a power lefty, something the Redleggers seriously lack. I find it hard to believe that the Orioles couldn't use one of the superb young outfielders we have along with a great young arm. They must be asking for an entire core of young players because Krivsky really wanted to get this deal done. He would be an idiot to decimate the farm system right now, as it's finally back on track as one of the best in the bigs.

 
at 2:34 PM Anonymous RedattheBeach said...

It sure doesn't look like the the Reds will be better next year. Why spend big on a closer if we aren't going to have the horses to actually need him?

WK seems desperate to keep his job. If he really wants to build for the future, so be it, but then why bother with the charade?

2008 looks to be another year mired in mediocrity. Just wondering, but are we really going to keep a guy in the big leagues for full season who just posted a 7.00 era at class A? Unless I missed something, that sure doesn't sound like a solid bullpen move to me...

 
at 2:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It never ceases to amaze me the number of fans who think they know more than Kvrisky. If they did, Castellini would give them the job. Hey, second guessers send in your resume to Bob.

Next, it isn't just the Reds scouts who rank Jay Bruce highly, all of baseball does. A player like that doesn't come along every day. You'd trade him for an established pitcher today? Don't send your resume to Bob.

 
at 2:40 PM Anonymous J-Diggety said...

there was something wrong with Bailey, he injured his Groin in his second start for the Reds. Pay attention please.
And I'd be ok with Lieber. But I still think they'll make a trade for a legitimate mid to front of the rotation pitcher.

 
at 2:54 PM Anonymous Red at the Beach said...

Hey NC Red Fan, where are you in NC? I am down near Wrightsville, but I get up to the RDU area often.

Too bad neither gets Reds games on FoxSports like they do in the NC mountains...

 
at 3:15 PM Blogger Don said...

The Reds signed the top free agent reliever.

Then they went hard after Bedard and possibly other studs. Simply put, it takes two to pull off a trade. If I were a GM, I would give up a lot to get Bedard, but I am not going to just hand the O's Bailey, Bruce, Votto, Hamilton, Cueto, etc. on a silver platter. You have to be sensible about these things or you get taken to the wood shed.

The Reds tried hard to pull something off. They can't pull off a trade by themselves.

 
at 3:48 PM Blogger Don said...

Raleigh-Durham here.

 
at 3:50 PM Anonymous Krash said...

Red at the Beach - I live in Wilmington. Don't see a lot of Reds fans down here.

 
at 4:14 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Well Don,
Based on your original comment, Aaron Harrang would not have been a starter for the Reds in 04 or probably 05:

03 Reds 4 3 5.28
03 A' s 1 3 5.34
04 Reds 10 9 4.86
Look at AH's numbers once he got stretched out to 200innings. Pitching is a marothon, watch Belisle go below 4.50 this year...

"What has Belisle done to be assured of a starting spot? ... then why go ahead and just hand Belisle the starting job? Shouldn't a pitcher with a 5.32 ERA the season before have to prove himself worthy of a spot in the rotation?"

 
at 4:23 PM Blogger John said...

So, the pitching starved Reds traded 2 relievers, Calvin Medlock and Brian Shackelford, for Jorge Cantu and Shaun Cumberland. They outright release Jorge Cantu who batted .298 in brief appearances for the Reds so that they could get a chip in the Rule 5 draft resulting in the selection of a underachieving Minor Leaguer from Atlanta who posted a 1-3 record with a 7.00 ERA in 32 games last year.

Were the loss of 3 players worth 1 Sergio Valenzuela?

Cantu had value. He had one down year after a very good year with the Devil Rays. He played favorably for the Reds last year in brief appearances. Couldn't he have been packaged in a trade instead of outright released?

This makes about as much sense as trading Brendan Harris to the Devil Rays, arguably the only player in the Majewski, Bray, Harris, Kearns, Lopez deal that would have been worth keeping by any performance measure up to this point.

 
at 4:45 PM Blogger Sue Shi said...

At the risk of being flamed by those who have a tendency to do that, here goes...

A lot of you so-called experts seem to forget that the Reds got into this situation by trading the few prospects they did have in the past for a quick fix which never materialized. Now you want them to do it again despite finally getting some home grown talent again.

The idea is to make smart trades to fill in holes, not dumb ones. And a lot of you so-called experts have really proposed some dumb ones.

Management fixed the biggest problem - the bullpen. Or helped it a hell of a lot. They're trying to get a starteer too, but I am glad they are being smart about it.

 
at 4:47 PM Blogger NC Reds Fan said...

Red at the Beach. I live in Charlotte, but I luckily go to school in the mountains, GO APP STATE MOUNTAINEERS!, so I get to watch the games on FSN south and Sports South.

 
at 5:07 PM Anonymous Red at the Beach said...

Mr. Fay,

Are you sure we did not sign Sergio Valenzuela, late of the Myrtle Beach pelicans?

Might solve part of the mystery regarding his size and stature...

Still don't see him sticking with the big league team.

 
at 5:35 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sue Shi
No one should "flame" you up for your post. you hitthe nail right one the head.

Most people get it what its gonna take the Reds to be competitive again. Just some people will never give credit where credit is due. It's all about opinions.

You should post more to even it out.
Woody

 
at 5:39 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey john what about the proposed cliff lee for josh hamilton trade. That would be a perfect fit for the reds. We have hopper and freel next year that could start in center and cliff would give us a reliable #3 or 4. Plus bruce could get more playing time with the big league club.

 
at 6:13 PM Blogger Sue Shi said...

Thank you, Woody.

I read in USA Today to my surprise the Reds were shopping Josh Hamilton. This was the first I heard of the Cliff Lee possibility. I can see that happening actually.

 
at 6:45 PM Anonymous Red at the Beach said...

Well we have 4 Reds fans from NC posting on here -- Representing!

And I bet our Ohio brethren have no problems with those killers of big blue from Boone...

As for the Reds lack of activity, nobody save WK knows what the options were, so this is all a bit moot anyway.

That said, I don't see anyone advocating a doyle alexander for john smoltz type of trade -- we are much more than 1 old arm away from competing.

But trading Bailey, hamilton, and say EE for Haren is as much or more than the yanks/sox were offering fro Santana, so I think it is reasonable and Haren is already a stud. If Bailey turns into Haren we will thanking our lucky stars (and paying through the teeth). Haren has 3 yrs left at less than 17million...

Previous regimes traded pitching for 5 tool outfielders (and seem to being doing the same thing in DC from what I see). Trading outfielders and young arms for established stud starters has never been a problem for the Reds, at least since Frank Robinson go traded!

 
at 6:47 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cliff Lee had a 6 plus ERA last year. Please god get these people off of here that are totally clueless.

 
at 7:12 PM Blogger cincikid said...

I read, from a Toronto beat reporter, on mlbtraderumors.com. That the Reds have shown some interest in Rios. If this report is true, why? My guess is that the Reds could have Rios. Who is a proven talent. And then be more willing to trade Bruce as a package in another deal. What do you all think?

 
at 7:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everybodys has a right to be on here and be read. If you don't agree with them or think they are clueless tell 'em that and let it be. No need to be pissin' and moanin.
Woody

 
at 7:26 PM Blogger Sue Shi said...

Dontrelle Willis had a 5 plus ERA last year, but a lot of people wanted the Reds to get him, including the GM.

You have to look beyond the statistics sometimes in REAL baseball. This isn't a rotiserrie league we're talking about

 
at 7:36 PM Blogger NC Reds Fan said...

EE and Hamilton to the Giants for Lincecum and a prospect. They need outfield help and 3b, and we need pitching. This also makes it easier to give Bruce pt when his time comes.
1. Hopper CF.
2. Keppinger 3B.
3. Griffey RF.
4. Phillips 2B.
5. Dunn LF.
6. Votto 1B.
7. Gonzalez SS.
8. Ross/Valentin C. (take your pick)

Harang, Arroyo, Lincecum, Bailey, Belisle/Maloney/Cueto/Shearn (take your pick)

 
at 7:41 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I am back. Waiting on the ferry. I think a lot of times at the meetings things get a bit twisted. Don't know if the Reds are shopping Hamilton. They may trade him but it's not like they have to rid of him. As for Rios, I doubt there's anything to that.

 
at 7:56 PM Anonymous mikec said...

John any more insight as to why they cut Cantu? Doesn't seem to make any sense.

 
at 7:58 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

First they waste all that $$$ bringing in Dustag. How many great pitchers have come here because of him? Krisvsky is a condesending pos. Reds will be no better next year. It never stops with these incompetant idiots.

 
at 9:09 PM Blogger Mark T said...

I'm just a fan, and the winter meetings are like Lucy holding the football.

I trust Reds' management. If there were a reasonable deal, they'd have made it. there were a lot of people looking to pick their pockets. Didn't happen.

They're a smart bunch. They don't know how to play to the galleries, but they play smart ball. They kept their young talent.

 
at 9:09 PM Blogger cincikid said...

Enjoyed you column on Dusty. Sounds like a good man. Didn't know he was a "Devil Dog"! Hoo Rah! Semper Fi!

 
at 9:33 PM Anonymous Red at the Beach said...

I would do that trade for Lincecum in a heartbeat. I'd even add a low minor leaguer or two to get it done -- maybe even Drew Stubbs.

2 established starting pitchers just isn't going to get it done. Neither will bringing in an injury prone retread ala Boomer Wells.

It also takes 3 good starters to have a shot in the playoffs, assuming we could ever make it back there...

 
at 9:35 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I heard nothing new on Cantu.

 
at 9:45 PM Anonymous Paul said...

John: I heard Coffey's comments today about his discovering a flaw in his mechanics, which should hopefully enable him to be more effective. He also mentioned that as a reliever, he did not need to throw four different pitches. Looking back at the success Coffee enjoyed at the beginning of the 2006 season, do you think it would be viable to consider moving him to the starting rotation? One thing is for sure. He would have a much shorter sprint to the mound!

 
at 11:12 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Coffey is in his own head. He was lucky the first half of '06 and then the league caught up with his straight fastball and no breaking ball. He needs to quit looking for excuses and develop a reliable breaking ball and lose the splitter.

 
at 12:36 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

at 3:15 PM Don said...
The Reds signed the top free agent reliever. Then they went hard after Bedard and possibly other studs. Simply put, it takes two to pull off a trade. If I were a GM, I would give up a lot to get Bedard, but I am not going to just hand the O's Bailey, Bruce, Votto, Hamilton, Cueto, etc. on a silver platter.

This view, which is shared by most Reds' fans, is flawed for one reason. Any prospect package the Reds offered could have been sweetened with Dunn, Hatty and/or Gonzo. The O's wouldn't gladly give us Bedard for these three stiffs, and Bruce could take over for Dunn, Keppinger could take over for Gonzo, and Votto could take over for Hatty. Would the Reds' play or the fans' interest decline if this trio and their salaries exited stage left? Answer: No.

Nuf said.

 
at 12:41 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Be interesting to see if anyone makes a waiver claim on Cantu. Not likely because if they wait til Friday or Saturday they can have him for free and not go to arbitration.

Still, if someone like the Giants and Marlins, who need a 3b, were to make claims, then the Reds could get something in return via trade.

Look at it this way: Even if Cantu goes to arbitration, he'd be the Marlins' second-highest paid player. But he was deemed too expensive for the Reds.

 
at 12:53 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reds should trade EE, Cueto, Hamilton for Haren

Line Up
Hopper CF
Keppinger 3B
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Dunn LF
Votto 1B
Ross 3B

Pitchers Harang, Arroyo, Haren, Bailey, Brett Tomko

 
at 8:28 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It never ceases to amaze me the number of fans who think they know more than Kvrisky.

For sure! In fact, just about anyone can do the job better than Wayne!

Another lousy start to the Winter for the Reds. Baker is going to be a horrible manager, Cordero won't be worth the money if only because you have to have a lead going into the 9th before you can use him effectively, and with our crappy set-up and starting pitching corps., 2008 is going to be largely a replay of 2007.

But at least we haven't traded Hamilton, Bruce, Keppinger, Votto, and Hopper...yet...

Releasing Cantu was absurd and careless. Nice job, Wayne! Oh I suppose any fan could have released a player who has more potential than any first-base option after Votto on this team.

The usual over-optimism that plagues this town is in high gear on this blog--just like the Bengals laying an egg after a summer full of superlatives, the Reds will be in 4th or 5th place again by the end of 08....no way this team competes (on paper or on the field) with even the Cardinals, let alone the Cubs and Brewers...The distance between the Reds and Milwaukee and Chicago has not been narrowed/

Reality Check: this team still absolutely STINKS and will not come close to making the playoffs...
don't forget, wild-card competitiveness is an even bigger problem than winning the division for this team!

Baker wouldn't even have a .500 record as a manager were it not for steroid boy! Failing to at least talk with Torre was the dumbest thing Wayne has done all year.

When the Dodgers are in the playoffs 10 months from now, and the Reds finish 10 games behind the lousiest wild card qualifier, Baker will be seen for what he is: an overpaid under-talented waste of money.

Even if Torre would never have moved to Cincy, Wally Backman is a hundred times better as skipper than Baker ever was, and he would have come dirt cheap (and for a town even considering La Russa, Backman's little "faults" are no big deal at all).

So, defend and praise Wayne all you want. So far, he's blown millions needlessly, and when Cordero and Baker amount to MAYBE 4-7 more wins next years (yawn), who will say that the tens of millions and all the lip service to "competitiveness" will have been worth it.

No evidence that Castellini understands how ill-served he is by keeping Wayne's World showering millions on the mediocre.

 
at 9:21 AM Anonymous ColumbusCraig said...

I think teams need to re-evaluate what a 5th starter should be. You need 4 guys you can count on, barring injury, to pitch every 5th day. That 5th spot should be a swing spot. That way you could choose from a long reliever who has been pitching well or call someone up from AAA to get a shot. But to look for one guy to be your 5th starter is a waste of time. Name one team that had a 5th starter make more than 20 starts. Worry about the first four and keep that 5th slot for open competition.

 
at 10:12 AM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

I'm sick of having to respond to CHEVIOT SPORTS AUTHORITY's ignorant replies, but his most recent one warrants for him to be shot!

Homer Bailey is over-rated? The kid is 21 years old! How many 21 year old pitchers do you see in the major leagues? VERY VERY FEW! The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity...you sir, are the latter!

Every time you spew that filth from that gutter you call a mouth, you are wrong. There are rare occasions on this blog where you are agreed with.

Homer Bailey is 21 years old...barely an adult...NOT over-rated. Pitchers require seasoning, and are not instant gratification. Of course this would be hard for you to understand, because you're baseball ignorant.

 
at 10:33 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Reds pitching can be sorted like this...

Harang and Arroyo finish with more wins than loses. #3-5 finish at .500 and the Reds should win the central. Can Cueto, Bailey and Belisle get #3-5 to .500 this coming year? That is the question. Bailey will be a 17 game winner here soon and same for Cueto (if they continue to improve). Why trade the future for this one year? In 2009 the Reds should have enough starting pitching to easily win the central. the Reds have Griffey, Ross, the bullpen to worry about. That by far is a bigger issue I think. I would be willing to sacrifice this year for the next 10.

Adrian

 
at 11:43 AM Blogger faithsman said...

i cannot belive some people would give up a talent like josh hamilton for a has-been that is being floated around by clubs looking for the fool who would take it. krivsky has done his homework and will not bite on sucker deals.. the future is hamilton, bruce and dunn..

 
at 12:04 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

Anonymous @ 13:36 AM says: and Bruce could take over for Dunn

Bruce has not played ONE GAME in the majors yet. NOT ONE GAME! What makes anyone think that he could actively take over and fill a person's shoes who hits 40 homer, drives in 100 RBIs, and plays in 150+ games a year? Jay Bruce is nothing more than a minor leaguer and a prospect at this point in time. I'm personally sick of the comments of people saying he can actively come in, not playing one major league game, and replace the likes of Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey, and others effectively! It's good to have dreams and hopes for this organization, but the fact of the matters is this...the Reds are not going to send someone like Adam Dunn to another team and replace him with a minor leaguer that's never played a major league game. There's not a team in the Majors that would think of such a thing, and anyone that does should be fired!

Let's get off the "Jay Bruce is a savior" train...seriously! He may be good, but acting like he is 40-50 homer per year guy...that's pretty far fetched at this point.

 
at 1:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

What befuddles me is that they didn't try apparently to get the deal detriot did for WIllis and Miggy!!!

Willis is 25 and Miggy 24 and would be definate improvements over guys with potential that were mentioned as trade bate and WIllIS and CABERRA are the same age in most cases as the guys that are Prospects(hamilton 25)etc.

how you pass on getting guys who you can build teams around for "prospects" is beyond me, the key thing in the word "prospects" are they are basing "projections" on potential, IE todd van poppel with the A's, Ryan Wagner, Willie Green , remember him???

Miggy and Dontrel have done it for several consectutive seasons no potential there... just proven track records, and they are young.... can be signed to longer term contracts... come on fans Krivsky missed the boat on this one!!

P. CAPITAL S. Get phillips and dunn locked up in long term contracts 5 years or so now!!!

 
at 1:45 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

All I can say is anyone who can, with a straight face, stand up and say Wally Backman is 100 times a better manager than Dusty Baker, and the only reason Baker won was because Barry Bonds batted in all eight slots for 10 years, definitely did the right thing by posting anonymously.

In 49 states you would be institutionalized for being baseball incompetent. But Alaska welcomes you with open arms.

 
at 1:49 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Columbus, teams would LOVE to go back to the 4-man rotation but today's pitchers are raised on 100-pitch outings and 5-man rotations, and worse is the pressure of agents about (potentially) ruining the arms (and money-maker) of their clients.

It's more detailed than just all that, but that's the core of the issue: wimpiness and greed.

 
at 2:28 PM Anonymous give me a break said...

There was an interesting article on the MLB website today talking about other possible Marlin trades/transactions...in it it mentioned b4 the tigers/marlins trade...that the reds and marlins were in serious negoitions....something along of the lines of hamilton (maybe more didnt say) for willis...the fact to the matter is the marlins got more from the tigers than they could have got from the reds...are you guys really willing to trade 6 yes count it 6 of our top prospects for 2 guys that we probably cant afford for long-term....im all for making trades, but we cant afford to lose 6 of our top prospects.....

this same article talked about how the marlins plan to sign cantu..I wish the reds couldve gotten a Hamilton/Encarnarcion/Cantu for Willis..BUT the tigers deal was much better than what the reds could offer...i know would rather have what we have now then...willis and cabrera - hamilton, bruce, bailey, cueto, cantu, encarnarcion....

 
at 3:12 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are not of the mind to give up three or four prospects for one player, I'll tell you that," Dodgers GM Ned Colletti said.

Ned Colletti rules, Wayne Krivsky drools. (That's in advance, before Wayne gives away 2 or 3 kids for some mediocre pitcher)

Dusty Baker is inferior to Joe Torre and Wally Backman.

Baker's record with the Cubs: 309-318.

Baker's last year with the Cubs:
66-96

Baker from 1993-1996 with the Giants: 293-290

Barry hit 279 HRs and walked 843 times between 1997-2002 for Baker...

Without Barry IN HIS STEROID PRIME Baker's record would look more like Baker's Cub and early Giants' years record.

When the 2008 Reds finish under .500, come back here and tell me how Baker was worth Millions

Especially when we could have had a winner (Backman) for five-figures (at least for the first season).

 
at 3:34 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bonds is just another Marion Jones

 
at 9:14 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

And again...the guy posts about Backman and doesn't give substantial proof that he's better than Dusty Baker.

Not only that...but he calls Erik Bedard a "mediocre pitcher." 16-5 with a 3.16 ERA and 221 Ks is faaaaar from mediocre, DUDE!

 
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