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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Tuesday, February 19, 2008

Dunn, Reds: Nothing going on on extension

Adam Dunn is in camp. Could it be his last as a Red?

Dunn says nothing is going on as far as talks about a contract extension. The Reds picked up his option on Oct. 31. But, as it is, he'll become a free agent after the season. Any hope something gets done?

"I don't know anymore," he said. "We'll see what happens. I'm really not worried about it."

Wayne Krivsky confirmed that no talks are going on.

"Right now, things are quiet," Krivsky said. "That don't mean that nothing's go to happen. Right now, we're starting spring training. Let's play. We'll see what happens."

Dunn said he feels great. He had arthroscopic surgery Sept. 26. He had been playing with bulky knee for over a year.

"It's good," he said. "I haven't done a lot of agility stuff. But it's better than it's been in a long time. It should make it easier to play."

Dunn, by the way, is a NASCAR convert after going to the Daytona 500.

"It was awesome," he said. "I wasn't a fan of NASCAR. Being there live and seeing how fast those guys go . . . it's amazing. I don't know how to describe it. TV will never be able to capture the speed, the noise.

"I love it."


at 9:25 AM Blogger steve said...

john dont forget to ask wayne the advance scout person.

at 9:34 AM Blogger John Fay said...

I was all over that this morning: it's going to be Shawn Pender. He was most recently the coach at St. Joe's in Philly. He's previously scouted for Houston, Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh, among others.

at 9:57 AM Blogger cincikid said...

How is Jon Adkins pitching? I went to High School and played ball with him. We are all real excited. Hopefully he can make it and we can catch some games with him pitching this season. If you talk to him, tell him that Fred from "out in Wayne" said to give'em hell and we are cheering for him.

at 11:14 AM Blogger bball452 said...

John, do you know who will be the on field staff for Chattanooga this year?


at 11:42 AM Blogger John Fay said...

Mike Goff is Chatanooga manager. Chris Bosio is the pitching coach; Jamie Dismuke is the hitting coach. Or at least that's what the media guide says.

at 12:27 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wake up cincy, Keppinger for lead-off hitter. Well, when he plays. Hopper is too one dimensional at the plate(bunting technique), teams will start to shift against him and freel is too inconsisent.


at 12:39 PM Blogger AHarpoon22 said...

If the price is right I would love to see Adam Dunn get an extension. 40 home runs a year is a great addition and hard to replace....it would also be nice to keep K's at a declining rate.

at 12:59 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would also like to say signing Dunn for a couple more years seem to make sense. He made great strides last year at the plate, and if he moves better because of that surgery, all the better.

For all the negatives, I believe this team will be in the hunt for the central title all year. Are they good enough to beat the Red Sox? Well...


at 1:00 PM Blogger DJ Hotlunch said...

We would only be so lucky to rid ourselves of Adam Dunn at the end of the year, I'm so tired of the classic Adam Dunn stat line, 1-5 (HR, 4 K's). Nice knowin ya!

at 1:16 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

His power numbers dipped after the All-Star break but so did his strikeouts. Some of the power loss was probably due to his injuries. One concern I have is his play in left field (again, somewhat due to injury).

If I'm Wayne Krivsky, I wait to see if Dunn takes a leadership role on this team before I resign him. 40 HR will always be there, but does he care enough about winning? That's not a knock on Dunn, but rather pointing out that somebody needs to step up and make people accountable.


at 1:17 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

I would feel much better about Dunn in LF without Griffey in RF. Dunn is a luxury. He is not a good clutch hitter and I certainly do not want him at cleanup. As a fifth or preferably even a sixth hitter he is fine. Perhaps we could wait and see how he does this season before committing to a long term deal. Don't need another albatross right now.

An opening day outfield of Dunn, Hopper and Bruce would suit me just fine. Unfortunately that won't happen this year.

at 1:21 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dunn's value was already described in detail in a great article by John Erardi last year. Losing him would require a replacement to put up his runs or a stud pitcher to make up for the runs lost by his absence.

I didn't think it was that confusing. Make sure that your kids pay attention in math class.

at 1:21 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Adam Dunn went 1-5 with a HR and 4 K's every game I would take it.

at 1:49 PM Anonymous redsfanwoody said...

Here's to hoping they get Dunn signed to an extension. I'm not sure if its better to wait till after the season if produces the same numbers or better. Even if he falls off a little, his price tag could rise on the open market.

If I remember correctly, Didn't Bob C. say he would like Dunn signed long term? If true, maybe something has changed his mind.

I suppose if they do not resign Dunn and Griffey option is not picked up they will have some cash to go after free agents. Which is Jocketty's specialty, then maybe Krivsky might be out the door.

Man I've turned into Oliver Stone! Come on Opening Day! I need fresh air to refuel(what's left of) my brain

at 1:58 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Griffey in Rf affects Dunn in LF? Come on CSA,we all know you hate Griffey with a passion but this argument shows you might be lacking some serious common sense.

You are making Jdeez points against you that much easier to prove. Which wasn't that hard to do to begin with.

at 2:01 PM Anonymous JT said...

1:21 - While the basic math makes sense, many of those runs that Dunn produces don't seem to matter. A solo HR in the ninth and down or up by six doesn't really help the team all that much. Losing Dunn's bat would hurt, but not nearly as much as many say. Don't forget, we would also get to lose his glove, which probably gives up some runs as well.

at 2:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let Dunn go.

He is not a good clutch hitter and not once in his life has he ever captured a unicorn.


at 3:43 PM Blogger David Hartman said...

The Reds were 19-17 last season in games when Dunn went yard.

Did they finish with a winning record overall? What does that tell you?

at 4:00 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

Team will be much better without ken Griffey after this year..that is if he plays an entire season.

Hes become average defensively and his solo homeruns on occasion do nothing to help the team. His 12 million a year cripples this franchise

How has this team done since hes been here?

Without Griffey..we could have had an outfield of Dunn, Hamilton, Bruce...Votto on first base and still have signed a couple of great pitchers with his 12 million

I agree wholeheartedly with Cheviot

at 5:43 PM Anonymous redsfanwoody said...

I would say "how was the pitching since Griffey has been here?"

You can't blame it all on him. That's where I disagree with people on Griffey. Seems all the woes & ills are directly put on him.

at 7:20 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Baseball fields players in nine positions. They have 25 on a roster.

Never, not once, in the great history of the professional game, which dates to the unbeaten Red Stockings of 1869, has a team suffered a losing season because of one player.

Not exactly a novel summation.

at 9:22 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

Its not that Griffey has not been on the field 60% of the time or that his skills have declined considerably..

no ..its just when u consider the limitations of our total budget..his 12 million a year and the lack of production from that 12 million a year .. that is what has has killed us

you may embellish and make excuses to defend the Griffey years, I wont defend mediocrity and foolish expenditure of payroll

at 9:59 PM Blogger John Fay said...

When did you it was a foolish expenditure of payroll? In '99 when they made the trade? That's the way baseball works: big contracts are big risks. But I don't remember anyone thinking the Reds gave Griffey too much money in '99.

at 10:07 PM Anonymous Red Faced said...

I'm afraid whether or not most of us want to admit it Jack is correct in that it is time to move Jr now. What it's costing us vs what we are getting is too high a price to pay for this small of a payroll. But when the deal was signed it didn't look this bad as no-one could have seen the injuries Jr has been plagued with while on the Reds. And you certaintly can't put all the blame on Jr for the woes we've seen.

I would be very surprised if Jr makes it through the trade deadline no matter how he's playing. Surely an AL team will want him for the stretch run and play him at DH/OF.

I am very surprised concerning the lack of discussions with Dunn. I was beating Dunn up the first half of the year saying how badly we needed to trade him but he proved to me the second half of the season that he could decrease his SO and get his BA back up to a reasonable mark. If he could hit .270 and continue to cut back on his SO then he may easily push the 50 HR mark and 125 RBI. You don't get that just anywhere guys.

at 10:08 PM Anonymous redsfanwoody said...

Sorry Jack it also has been the lack of developing pitching. If you been to 30 games a year and know so much of the record, why can't you see that?

Doesn't make a lick of difference what his salary is. If the Reds would have been able to develop pitchers and not have them flame out by Double A ball, we probably would not be having this conversation.

I am not making or embellishing excuses for Griffey. You cannot lay all the blame at Griffey's feet. You should lay it where it belongs. Poor drafting and developing of pitching since God knows when!

You can bash away on Griffey all you want, I could care less. But you got to able to see he's not the number one reason for the Reds woes.But I certainly don't expect you to. Have a great night.

at 12:30 AM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

I don't think anyone said that
Griffey was the number one reason for the 7 straight losing seasons since he has been here. I for one was elated when they traded for him.

Things just didn't work out for whatever reason and now the Reds would be much better served without him in RF. From the All-Star break on last season, I don't think he hit .200. He should have been sat down last season long before the injury. August and Sept were unbelievably bad and his outfield play and base running now leave a lot to be desired. I am not going to get into the attitude thing and the fact that he probably won't play a whole season anyway.

Now since Hamilton is gone, Bruce has to show that he is ready or this whole point is mute anyway. I think Hopper has proven that he can get on base and play a good centerfield and bat leadoff.

I agree, you can't replace a Griffey with a Freel (unless for late inning defensive purposes).

at 12:46 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Hindsight is 20/10 vision and Fay is right: nary a soul was bitching about Griffey and his contract when the deal was made.

Besides, Griffey's return at the gate and through MLB properties hasn't been shabby. That contract did not kill the Reds from competing, but Larkin's larceny did. That $27 mil over three years directly resulted in the crisis of poor drafting because the Reds knew they didn't have the money to sign the picks they wanted.

But hey, Larkin walks on water and Griffey is abum because he's injured and make a lot of cake.

And enough with the trade Griffey stuff. It's useless, it's pointless.

For one, he has full veto power. For another, who the hell replaces him and his numbers? And yet another, they've already paid him about half the $112.5 mil or so of the deal. The rest is deferred. May as well get what you can out of him at this point.

If you say pay some of his salary to move him, what's the point of that? Who is going to hit 25-30 homers and drive in 90-100 for less than $4-$6 mil?

at 7:51 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

John Fay..I dont know exactly what you typed..

Simply.. giving any 30 year old ballplayer a ten year deal is foolish

redlegs..the topic was not moving Griffey this year..I think we all know that is not possible.

please don't tell us what to discuss or not to discuss

at 8:15 AM Blogger KY side of Cincy said...

Who on Earth is going to trade for an aging Ken Griffey, Jr.? Let's see, he isn't physically dependable, he is a prima donna, and he does next to nothing to bring young players along. One of the great values of aging hall-of-famers is typically that clubhouse leader who "has been there" and can "show the youngsters how to be a pro." You get neither of those with Junior. Oh, by the way, he's making $12.5 or thereabouts.

No John, I don't think they overpaid for him, but I don't think he's gone out of his way to give much back to the Reds off the field either.

In my humble opinion he is virtually untradable.

On the Dunn subject, the group of fans wishing him to leave crack me up. He is a consistent offensive force....period. Those guys don't grow on trees. Is he perfect? Not hardly. However, his presence in this line-up effects several areas, not just his own slot. Believe it or not, folks don't want to face a guy that can "miss a ball" 400 feet to right with men on base. His average with RISP needs to continue to get better, his ability to produce in the clutch isn't great, but in the grand scheme of things, he is a guy that is most assuredly worth keeping.

at 8:38 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...


I did not approve of Larkins 27 mill over three years..but at least he played the majority of the time

at 8:58 AM Blogger John Fay said...

Larkin played 45 games, 145 games and 70 games the three years of the $27 million contract.

at 9:19 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

I notice how John Fay neglects to post some of my posts even though they are not scurrilous in nature.

John I am afraid you are quite biased regardless of what you may say to the contrary

I do apologize for the larkin post..I really did not follow that player

Yet..as I put in my post you did not allow.. signing any 30 year old ballplayer to a ten year contract is not wise

at 9:36 AM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Yeah, Larkin was as bad as Griffey. No one was happier to see Larkin out of here as CSA except maybe for Jack McKeon.

at 10:32 AM Anonymous Red Faced said...

The Reds can't do anything about the past now so debating the Larkin contract or even the Griffey contract will do us no good.

I think the fact that Griffey will very very likely not be here next year and yes despite what people think he might be valuable to a team in the AL and we could move him as a result by the trade deadline. Remember, Griffey had an excellent first half last year. A lot of teams would have loved to have him in their lineup with those numbers. In the AL he could easily spend half of his time at DH and perhaps he'd be able to play more effectively in the second half by doing that. I think he was just absolutely spent the last 2 months of the year. He had one of the slowest swings you'll see during Aug of last year and that's not typical Jr. Of course the Reds might have to eat part of that 12 mil but I can see it happening, gives us a chance to make Bruce our everyday right fielder and saves some money and would likely happen after number 600 so you fill some seats before the trade with the chase.

I think the bigger question is concerning Dunn though. If the Reds do offer him an extension how long do you guys think it will be? Would he be willing to only sign a 3 year deal, I doubt it. I think it'll have to be more like a 4 or 5 year deal. What kind of money will it take to sign a guy like Dunn for that long? He's what 28 years old now. Are we talking 15 mil a year, 18 mil maybe even 20 mil on the back end? Phillips' option year is what 16 mil? I'm afraid we are going to have to sink a lot of money into Dunn in order to keep him. Perhaps Dunn takes less to stay with Cincy I don't know but it will be a lot of dough none-the-less. If our young pitchers work out then the chance of signing Dunn are better but if they don't and the team things we need to go sign a top tier pitcher then there's a lot less money to go around and I'm not sure we can afford Dunn then.

One thing is for sure though guys. An outfield of Freel, Hopper, Bruce and Keppinger next year doesn't get it Dunn. Sorry for the pun.

at 10:46 AM Blogger KY side of Cincy said...

Good points, however, I don't think Griffey has any interest in DH'ing (read: again, prima donna).

On Dunn, I can't imagine he'd be interested in giving Cincy a discount considering he constantly gets hammered by Marty, The ENQ Columnist, and a vocal portion of the fans. All while playing 160 games and putting up 40 / 100 / 100 / 100. Who can blame him? I don't.

John Fay may disagree, but I think it'd take something in the 5 year / $75 Million range to keep him. I'm certain Castellini wants to keep him, I'm equally certain Wayne doesn't -- I guess Walt gets to break the "mythical" tie.

at 10:57 AM Anonymous Red Faced said...

I did a little research and compared the first 7 years of Dunn's career with the first 7 years of Reggie Jackson and Darryl Strawberry there are some very interesting details there and I'd like to share with you.

Through their first 7 years Dunn has played more games, has 50 more runs, more doubles, 48 more homeruns than Reggie, 24 more homers than Darryl, 36 more RBI than Reggie but 53 fewer than Darryl, more than 200 more BB than Reggie and 165 more than Darryl, but more than 200 more SO than Reggie and 250 more than Darryl. Dunn's BA is lower by 16 pts and 12 pts, but his OBP is 20 pts higher and his slugging is 20 pts higher than Reggie and even with Darryl's.

All in all Dunn has better stats than both of these guys with the exception of the SO and BA and SB (although his caught stealing percentage is lower just not as many SB's). If Dunn could continue to cut down on his strike outs as he did the second half of last year then I have no doubt he'd bat just as well as both of these guys as his BA last year is what Reggie's and Darryl's was for their 7 year avg.

So why did I compare these two guys to Dunn? Well for one his numbers match up very well with them for their first 7 years. Reggie is obvious, he's a Hall of Famer and the fact that Dunn's numbers are better than Reggie's is just awesome but I threw Darryl in there because some of his numbers were better than Reggie's too. The difference? Well the difference is that Reggie went on to have 8 more very good years. Darryl had one more good year and then was injury plagued the rest of his career.

So which one is Dunn closer to being, Reggie Jackson or Darryl Strawberry? I personally think his durability is closer to Reggie's. If that's the case then you have sign this guy long term don't you? Can anyone say Frank Robinson?

at 11:05 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

with Griffeys 12 million off the payroll.. hopefully increased attendance..the Reds can do alot..this including keeping Dunn

hopefully ..Freel does not even come north with this club

all hustle..very little talent..and please dont make comparisons to Pete Rose

at 11:08 AM Blogger John Fay said...

Ky Side of Cincy: In my own unbiast opinion,I think your close on the numbers. Knowing Dunn, I don't see him trying to squeeze every dollar out the Reds.

You're right, this is just kind of situation where Jocketty's input is going to be key to Castellini's decision.

at 11:57 AM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Thanks so much for Jocketty. I don't think that Dunn commands anywhere near 75 mil for 5 seasons, unless he has a George Foster year this season. I don't really see that much interest in him from other teams. Where else is he going to put up the numbers that he does?
Don't twist my post around, I believe that the Reds should keep Dunn and I know that the chances of dumping Griffey before the end of the year are slim.

at 12:30 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

John ..thats unbiased

Id keep Dunn.. he will perform better with the youngsters out there

I think he wants to stay

at 12:52 PM Anonymous J-Diggety said...

Jack, If you don't like how Mr Fay handles HIS blog, you know you don't have to post to it right?

at 1:01 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Yes jack, you are right. NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would give a 30 year old ARod a 10 year contract. NOBODY.

Sir Albert is worthy of 10 years also WHEN he hits 30

When Jr was 30, he was worth 10 years also

I'll bet if you ask the Yankees, they would Jeter a 10 year contract at 30.

I would have given Pete Rose a 10 year contract. Maybe then he would not have worn those other silly uniforms. Man he looked bad in those Philly Rags

at 1:17 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Please spare me comparing Adam to Frank Robinson.

at 1:53 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

giving jr griffey was one of the worst absolute deals this franchise has or will make..

I am not going to argue the point with people that defend mediocrity

yeah adam is another Frank R too funny

at 1:58 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...


"When Jr was 30, he was worth 10 years also"

obviously he was not

at 3:23 PM Anonymous Red Faced said...

I just knew someone was going to take that the wrong way I just knew it. Cheviot Sports Authority I was not - I repeat - was not comparing Adam Dunn to Frank Robinson.

I was comparing the fact that many believe that the Reds should never have let Frank Robinson go and there's a part of me who wonders if we don't resign Dunn that perhaps we could end up regretting letting him go as well.

That's it, nothing more. The comparisons stop there. Although most people know that Adam and Frank both have a love of fresh vegetables so I guess we could talk about that.

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