Reds Insider: Which rotation do you like?

Friday, March 21, 2008

Which rotation do you like?

Which do you like?

Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, Kyle Lohse, Matt Belisle and Eric Milton?

Or Harang, Arroyo, Johnny Cueto, Josh Fogg and Edinson Volquez?

The first one is last year’s Opening Day rotation. The second one is what looks to be this year’s Opening Day rotation?

Last year, the Reds were counting on Milton and Lohse to return to earlier form. (They didn’t, by the way)

This year, the Reds are counting on the potential of Cueto and Volquez. My guess is most of you prefer rolling the dice with the live, young arms. Cueto and Volquez are going to light up the scoreboard radar readout like no starters the Reds have had since, well, they started putting radar readouts on the scoreboard. That doesn’t assure success, but Cueto and Volquez have shown good off-speed stuff and fearlessness this spring as well.

Going with them seems to me to be a step in the right direction.

50 Comments:

at 4:51 PM

Bengal43 said...

Any chance of trading Stanton?

at 5:11 PM

Red Faced said...

John, not only do I like this year's rotation much more but the fact that we do not have Milton in the rotation was automatically an improvement in my eye. I'm very happy to see Cueto in the rotation to start the year. I honestly did not think the higher ups would ever let that happen no matter how good he was during the Spring. That alone tells me that the ownership is wanting to win now and not just tomorrow.

And oh, we couldn't trade Stanton for a bucket of batting practice balls.

at 5:13 PM

Jeff said...

I know a lot of how good this rotation actually turns out to be depends a great deal on two unproven pitchers. With that said, I think this rotation is got the potential to be the best one they've put on the field since the early '90s if not the late '70s. The worst case is it will only be somewhat better than last years rotation.

at 5:15 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Why would anyone want Stanton?

at 5:21 PM

NVreds said...

the 2nd one, of course I've been saying this all spring, our rotation is well above last yrs, this is a big reason why I have some optimism going into this season.

stanton would have to pitch well the beginning of the season for even a chance to trade him, i hope this happens. hatteberg, freel, & belisle all have the most trade value (and yes they do have some value, especially belisle. if you disagree your wrong). castro has a little too, but we need a backup SS, so until gonzo is back he's on this team.

at 5:28 PM

Dan H said...

Yes, very much a step in the right direction. I posted sometime last year that 2008 would be a transition year building towards a contending team in 2009 and beyond. It appears to be taking shape with Cueto,Volquez,gaining starting experience. Votto getting a full year of ML time. Bruce and Bailey fine tuning their skills for call ups later this year. Encarnacion solidify himself, Patterson a temporary measure in CF unless he exceeds his previous expectations. Cordero hopefully a solid closer. They could actually contend if the Cubs slip and everything from injuries to performance from key players goes their way.This includes the bullpen having to be much much better this year!! Its always optimistic when all teams start the year 0-0.

at 5:40 PM

Gunner said...

I have to say that I dont feel near the amount of uncertainty for 2008 that I felt about our starting rotation going into 2007. Last year I felt like with career years from Milton & Lohse ... we could compete. This year, I feel like 4 out of 5 rotation spots are in good hands and that we WILL compete. Big difference! You havent seen ESPN in the recent past barking about the potential of the Reds rotation like they have this year. This is why its all the more exciting to get to opening day in '08.

at 5:41 PM

Gunner said...

Trade Stanton? We'd have to pay someone to take him off our hands.

at 5:49 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

this year is looking better..Go team

I see .500 if not better

We are psyched

at 5:52 PM

Anonymous said...

I would much rather roll the dice with young kids throwing 96 with knee buckling off-speed stuff than washed up has beens. Sorry to be so harsh. That's just how I view Milton and Lohse.

I'd have to say based on shear potential and "stuff" the Red's have made the biggest turn around this off-season when it comes to the rotation. The rotation as a whole, not in terms of one individual (Bedard, Santana, and Haren). But that's just me.

at 5:59 PM

Anonymous said...

LOL who would trade for Stanton. All we can do is hope that he rebounds this year.

John
I would much rather go with this pitching staff. I would also go with votto at 1st base. I do agree with sending Bruce down but I am so ready for a youth movement. Even if it takes a couple years to compete. I hope that we are patient with the kids and don't yoyo them to the minors if they have a bad game.

at 6:03 PM

redsfansince61 said...

why not have cueto do the same job
jose rijo used to do for pete rose
when he was mgr. long relief...
rijo was a good luck charm his first year with the reds and great learning experience when someone else faltered....

at 6:06 PM

Unknown said...

John do you think Mercker would retire if told he would start the year at Triple A?

at 6:16 PM

Lets Talk Reds Blogger said...

Stanton has no trade value. Who would want him? I think we have to just bite the bullet and cut him. He is costing us $3.5 million but more importantly, he is going to cost us wins.

I am excited about the rotation though. I was surprised to see Fogg slated in the 4 spot instead of the 5.

at 6:56 PM

John Fay said...

I think there's a good chance mercker would retire rather than go to Louisville.

Fogg's fourth to separate cueto and volquez who have similar stuff. It's almost like throwing a lefty in.

at 7:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Aaron Harang flames
This one belongs to the Reds
Cincinnati cheers

at 7:09 PM

Bengal43 said...

John, is it true that the 26th is the last day to cut non-roster guys without guaranteeing their contract for this year?

at 7:13 PM

redfuture said...

I see some are confused about the need for a 5th starter. The 5th starter is needed no later than April 6th! Also, I think there is a good chance Homer will be the 5th guy. I think there is a huge perception that he will learn his lesson's quickly in the bigs. Fogg's most value can be had by having him around to bail out Homer when his pitch count is excessive. What better way to get Homer out of the fog than by using Fogg! Harang and Arroyo will be able to go every 5th day which allows the young studs to have an extra day or two off quite often. Here's the way the first 2 month shake out (assuming no rainouts):
3/31..Harang
4/1............off day
4/2...Arroyo
4/3...Cueto
4/4...Volquez
4/5...Harang...(his 5th day)
4/6...Bailey
4/7...Arroyo...(his 5th day)
4/8...Ceuto......"
4/9...Volquez...."
4/10..Harang....."
4/11..Bailey....."
4/12..Arroyo....."
4/13..Cueto......"
4/14.............off day
4/15..Harang...(his 5th day)
4/16..Volquez..(his 7th day)
4/17..Arroyo...(his 5th day)
4/18..Bailey...(his 7th day)
4/19..Cueto....(his 6th day)
4/20,25,30...Harang..(5th day)
4/21,26......Volquez.."
4/22,27......Arroyo..."
4/23,28......Bailey...."
4/24,29......Ceuto..."
5/1.............off day
5/2...Arroyo...(5th day)
5/3...Volquez..(7th day)
5/4...Bailey...(6th day)
5/5...Harang...(5th day)
5/6...Cueto....(7th day)
5/7...Arroyo...(5th day)
5/8.............off day
5/9...Volquez..(6th day)
5/10..Harang...(5th day)
5/11..Bailey...(7th day)
5/12..Arroyo...(5th day)
5/13..Cueto....(7th day)
5/14,19,24..Volquez..(5th day)
5/15,20,25..Harang...."
5/16,21.....Bailey...."
5/17,22.....Arroyo...."
5/18,23.....Cueto....."
5/26...........off day

at 7:13 PM

Fkdrad said...

I watched Ross catch four innings today with the Sarasota Reds. Seemed to be no worse for the wear when finished. He had two hits,a walk and a K. One hit was a long Hr, with the wind. Affeldt threw the first two innings of the game.He gave up two hrs....also with the wind!!

at 7:27 PM

NJREDS29 said...

The rotation would of been alot better if it was Harang, Blanton, Cueto, Arroyo, and Volquez....and I think we are making a mistake sending Roenicke to AAA instead of dumping Stanton especially with Burton not having a good ST.

On another note regarding Patterson, for this move to work out in the Reds favor he will need to hit .270 with 25 hrs. and drive in 75 runs with 20 SB's. Anything short of that was a waste of Bruce in AAA.

at 7:42 PM

Brad in IN said...

Hey, cut Stanton a little slack. Compare to the horrible rotation fill-ins the last few years, he's nothing (Eric Milton, Kyle Lohse). Anyone read the story about Stanton's last year, the passing of his father, etc. The guys got 20+ years in the majors, and quality playoff experience. You guys will hate on me, no doubt. And I'll take it from the lot of you. GO REDs.

at 8:07 PM

John Fay said...

I don't know about the 26th.Sounds familiar. I'll check. Thanks to the posters for the minor league updates.

at 8:43 PM

redsfanwoody said...

First time I don't know in how long that I am actually excited about the rotation. Looking forward to actually see Cueto and Volquez in person.

at 9:05 PM

Unknown said...

When could the Reds bring Bruce up and not have him get enough service time to start his free agent clock?

at 9:17 PM

John Fay said...

that date is typically in late may or June, I believe. I do not think it's a factor. If Griffey, dunn or Patterson gets hurt, I think you'll see Bruce -- whether it's April 2 or june 2.

at 9:22 PM

Dan H said...

Any update on Gonzalez,he obviously starts the year on The DL?

at 9:28 PM

John Fay said...

Gonzalez will see dr. K tomorrow. Will have an update then .

at 9:43 PM

Bengal43 said...

Anything new on the search for a catcher?

at 9:56 PM

redsfan8557 said...

Its about time you guys are looking at the good things on the team. It gets redundant with all the same bull

at 9:58 PM

24/7 said...

how bout lil old cincinnati gettin' some national press. two in one day? is the banks built? is otr the new soho??

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/wires/03/21/2010.ap.bbn.reds.harang.0662/

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3304727

at 10:44 PM

Frank Robinson's Ghost said...

NJREDS29 --

Sure it would be nice to have Blanton to plug in place of Fogg, but how was that going to happen? The A's demanded Cueto for him. Seems to me that would have been a poor trade.

at 11:09 PM

Arden Dulou said...

In 20-20 spring training hind sight...
Blanton for Cueto (and the other guys the A's probably wanted)...
That would of been horrible. The bright side is now without that or any other trade, the Reds cna compete this year and have Bailey replace Fogg next year. That would make Arroyo the #4 guy. That is called massive improvement and we still have Bruce and Votto as well.

at 11:22 PM

Unknown said...

Nice comment on hindsight regarding the Blanton for Cueto (plus others) deal. I bet everyone's glad that DIDN'T happen.

Also, to all of those who ripped the Fogg signing, it's looking like a fantastic deal now. Would you rather be forced to stick a struggling Bailey or injured Belisle into the rotation? If the Reds hand was forced and it had to be Homer right now I would feel a lot worse about road trips with Cueto, Volquez, Bailey than Cueto, Fogg, Volquez.

at 11:47 PM

firefly118 said...

As an avid negator on here, I must say that I am pleasantly surprised with the young guys. And yes, this years rotation looks a heck of a lot better. I didn't want Milton in the first place, but that is the past and this is our future, and it looks bright.
BUT....... now we are regressing in the field. Just when the pitching looks like it could be o.k, we go and do something stupid with the position players. Bring Bruce back and get rid of Patterson.

at 12:28 AM

Unknown said...

John (Fay, of course) - good call on the "almost like a lefty." Facing a guy like Fogg before and after those two is like mixing a changeup in between one of their 95+ heaters - which they do quite well, btw.

Redfuture - that schedule is ridiculous; who looks at the first 2 months rotation before we break camp? I LOVE the enthusiasm and it's nice to know I'm not the only one really fired up for the Reds this year. :)

at 12:48 AM

Champ Summers said...

Are you kidding me....enough with Blanton.

John, you are at fault for obsessing on this rumor.

Cueto and Volquez have tons of talent and Fogg is what he is...a million dollar bargain.

A million bucks, 10 wins and a 5.00 era will be worth not rushing Bailey in the end.

at 2:16 AM

JerBear said...

As the season gets closer, I'm starting to think we may not be more than 5 or so wins better than last year, but I'd much rather see us struggle at mediocrity with young developing pitchers like Cueto and Volquez then lose with Milton and Lohse.

Lohse is with the Cardinals right? Wouldn't be too surprised to see him have a decent season with the way the Cards staff seems to get the most out of underacheiving pitchers.

I think it's important that Volquez is making the staff also. If Josh Hamilton stays healthy he is going to have a ridiculous year stat wise in Texas.

It may not be a huge thing, but I think it's somewhat important for the Reds to show right away that in the Josh Hamilton trade they received not just a couple prospects, but a very good pitching prospect who could become one of the starting 5 for many years to come.

at 3:51 AM

Michael said...

It appears the Red's new chief is bringing in his own braves from his tribe? Bottom line, as it appears, "Birds of the same feather are flocking together?" Perhaps little does anyone know that Freel won the honors of "High School all-American" as catcher his senior year. He helped his team to the state finals where they had to settle for first runners up. His versitility got him drafted by St. Louis out of high school. Wouldn't it be smart to try him at the #2 spot since that is what they are looking for? He can gun a runner down in a New York second. "Freel would be a better at 3B" as quoted by a certain radio announcer from WLW700, not to mention any names. I can remember seeing Freel with catchers equipment and helping out in the bull pen. It was written in a few articles "he could be an emergency back up catcher if needed." Well, he's needed and everyone needs to understand he got hurt last year that cut into his outstanding stats the three pervious years.
Several fans share in these thoughts as I do. We don't want to loose Freel's presence here in Cincinnati.

Thanks,

J.P. Long
Middletown, OH

at 4:13 AM

Michael said...

at 6:59 AM

redaholic said...

another question is... if cueto,volquez, and bailey reach their potential, can the reds afford to keep even one of them?

at 7:26 AM

"PR-4256" said...

:IF" the Reds are to be competitive this year,(i.e., break the streak of 7 straight losing seasons), they Must have a lights out year from 2 or 3 unexpected sources. I mean we all know what to expect from Griffey, Dunn, Phillips, Harang, & Arroyo. In fact if that group simply duplicates what they did last year we will all be happy,........but we may also have losing season number 8 in a row. Unless Cueto, & Volquez, have lights out years, I mean like 14 wins each, no chance to compete. !!Also a Joey Votto must have a big year. Going back to 1961 the Reds in pennant winning seasons have always had big years from someone unexpected , usually a rookie. In 1961, it was rookie pitcher Ken Hunt, in 1970 it was rookie pitcher Wayne Simpson,& Don Gullet at age 19,.in 1975 it was Santo Alcala, & in 1976 it was rookie of the year Pat Zachary. So without Big years from 2, 3, or even 4 of the rookies , No Chance.Never mind that you may never hear from that player again, but this year 3-4 must come thru "Big",....or it's number "8".

at 9:25 AM

JackBlueAsh said...

jerber..your argument is contradictory,, you state you dont care that the prospect we received is developing, then you say he has do well to show that we did not get shafted in the Hamilton trade

what does having a ridiculous stat year mean ? If Hamilton bats around .300 and has 35-40 homeruns . I would suggest to you he is having a great year

Dave enthusiasm runs rampant during the preseason in any sport and for most teams. I would imagine even the 1-15 Miami Dolphins fans will be excited this preseason

at 9:50 AM

smtides said...

Jack:

Good call. We definitely don't want any enthusiasm around here. It's much better to log on to the board and read about Griffey's salary killing the Reds. Or your wife's job. Or the price of water at the stadium.

Michael:

Just because Freel was a catcher in HS doesn't mean he can be an effective catcher in the big leagues. He was moved after HS for a reason. I'm not satisfied with the depth chart at catcher either, but Freel isn't the answer, IMO.

at 10:15 AM

NVreds said...

hamilton will have a good yr, possibly a very good yr.

even if volquez has an ok yr, I still make the trade, the reds needed pitching real, real bad. Thats why they made a highly controversial trade, because this team is desperate and should be. Thats what I want my ownership to do, thats how you build winners instead of always doing what the fans want. not resigning griffey is probably not a popular move, but it needs to be done, and they are planning on replacing him w/ bruce (who will benefit from the time in AAA & strikes out too much because of less time in high minors).

at 11:24 AM

Unknown said...

The rotation and bullpen have improved tremendously over last year. The Reds are still the fourth best team in the division though. They didn't address the lineup problem facing left handed starting pitching. They still have too many "me" players in their starting lineup swinging for the fences for the big money "home run" hitting contracts and striking out too much. They don't have enough "team first" players in the lineup.

at 12:19 PM

Unknown said...

Lohse didn't return to his previous form? What form was that? Last year was pretty much in line with his career, if not better.

at 3:07 PM

ryan kahn said...

For the first year since the reds made the world series in 1990 we have a pitching rotation to be excited about. Yes Volquez and Cueto are rookies but seeing them pitch in the spring puts their young age out of the picture. Both throw hard, very hard. Both have excellent off speed pitches and both have nice mound presence. Not to mention the bull pen we now have. Finally...a closer! Fransisco is the real deal. He'll save over 40 games again this year, if not 50. The Cincinatti Reds are going to the playoffs! Mark it down.

at 4:07 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

good post gale except for one thing..we have not played a single game we don't know if the pitching has improved

opening game right around the corner ..cant wait.. 3 rows behind the reds dugout

at 5:50 PM

reaganspad said...

We know the bullpen has improved regardless of how many games we have or haven't played.

It is just ignorant to say there is no improvement when you add 60 ip's of sub 3 ERA, let alone all the saves.
Enjoy living in 2007

at 9:58 PM

redsfanwoody said...

Enjoy your enthusiasm. Who cares if a game hasn't been played yet? Its what spring is for after a long winter. The possibilities that lies ahead.

Jeff Keppinger is having a great spring training. Doesn't matter. Not a game has been played yet.

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Friday, March 21, 2008

Which rotation do you like?

50 Comments: