Greetings from St. Louis
The sun is peaking through new. It was raining this morning when I got here via the red-eye, through Atlanta, where it was also raining.
On the walk from the metro station to the hotel, I noticed that the development around noew Busch is gonig like the development around Great American -- very slowly. The block directly in front of the ballpark is a hole in the ground. With the rain, there was a little lake. May they can offer game time cruises.
Putting a new ballpark where the old ballpark was when the old one didn't spur development 30 years doesn't make a lot sense. But that's just me. I was a Broadway Commons guy.
posted by John Fay at 1:56 PM
19 Comments:
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Post a Comment*John,
Can you give us your thoughts on if everyone is making way too big of a deal about the Brandon Philips situation of him not wanting to talk to the media last night.
People are bashing Brandon's ego. What about the ego of some members of the media (no offense to you)?
In five or six years, the areas on both sides of the river will be booming, the Banks project well under way..it will be neat.
I initially advocated Broadway Commons..But, after serious reflection , I can say there is nothing better than sitting in the cheap seats, watching the game, the boats on the river and listening to Marty on the radio..Its the river
It made far too much sense to put the ballpark at Broadway Commons for this city to listen. They could have even run their street cars to Broadway Commons from the hotels and that could actually be worthwhile.
ST CSA
maybe cincinnati will get off a cheek or two and get an nba franchise and put it at broadway commons, but let me pinch myself first.
Me too, John. I thought Broadway Commons would have helped the city development as a whole, right there in idyllic OTR. I'm serious. The city needs to reclaim that area from the criminals.
The riverfront setting is just too obvious, but with some vision it could've become something beautiful as well - like a park.
Chicago is a perfect example. Their waterfront doesn't depend on sporting events. It is for broader enjoyment. Open space, parks, world class museums, shopping, etc.
Of course they've had the benefit of architects that actually mattered and had great vision and pride. Cincinnati should be so lucky.
That said, I still love you Cincinnati. XOXO
I was a Broadway Commons guy, too, but at that time, I was too young to know all the details. I just liked the name Broadway Commons.
I love the location on the river, and agree with jack that it is the perfect place for this city. After all, we are quintessentially a river city, and a baseball city. Why not combine the two? And when the new streetcar is built it will link up the stadiums with the restaraunts around Fountain Square, the Banks, and the Bars around Main Street OTR, as well as the cultural sites like the CAC and Music Hall. This city is going to be a thing of beauty in a decade or so. I can't wait!
I believe Soldier Field also sits on the lakefront, doesn't it? Same in Cleveland. They all are pretty much surrounded by parks too. Cincy is still planning on expanding the riverfront park system. Honestly, it really is an exciting time to be living in this city, as far as I'm concerned.
As for tonight, do you think another poor outing by Arroyo will force some kind of move by Jocketty & Co.? Perhaps a move to the bullpen and a Louisville callup? With the mindset of firing Krivsky because we need to "win now", they can't wait around forever on Arroyo, right?
barry larkin great post...its the river
the commons was too close to the jail
John,
Looking back, do you think that the Reds should have explored getting both Cliff Lee and Kelly Shoppach from the Indians? I stated in the offseason they should attemp to get Lee, (now look what he has done) and Kelly Shoppach could have answered the question at catcher. What do you think about this? Did they miss out on a prime opportunity?
It is very easy to say "the Riverfront didn't work, so Broadway Commons would've been better." However, that is not a logical argument. The problem is that people are sick of mediocre or less teams staying that way after having huge amounts of public funds dumped into their pockets. If the Reds were winning, people would be going to the games and the area would be developing either way. If the Reds had gone to Broadway Commons they would be attracting fewer fans to a less scenic, more dangerous area to see mediocre baseball.
Will T, being in an area that only gets Indians radio coverage, I heard many Cliff Lee to the Reds rumors. I know Krivsky never talked about deals, but the Indians GM is much more open about possible moves. For Lee the Indians wanted a good pitching prospect in return like Thompson. And at that time Lee was coming off a horrible year in which he was sent to Triple A for most of the season. Also, remember that the Indians already have a solid DH in Travis Hafner and a log jam in all the outfield spots stopping a Dunn trade. So, a matchup with the Reds and Indians was and still is not real good option to make a deal.
The problem with some of your thinking about the riverfront development is you're basing it on the wins and losses of the Reds. That's not a factor. What is a factor for these types of projects is the year-round commercial, retail and residential impact (the trifecta).
The Reds play six months of the year. What about the other six? Who goes down to the riverfront? Eight weekends for Bengals games don't really count. Why would any developer or business owner put money into an area where foot traffic does not flow on a daily basis?
Cincinnati is a river town and the ballpark should probably have been where it is, but Broadway Commons offered much more potential for the trifecta that is necessary to make growth possible. A couple of parks, museums and sports events don't cut the cake.
You need people, and you need people traffic, and you need people traffic with pockets of disposable cash.
I think Broadway Commons would have been far less desirable to fans from outlying areas like Dayton, Columbus, Indiana, and NKY.
Real Cincinatians that know the city would be okay, but for someone to come in just for a game, its just sketchy up there.
Plus, traffic. On the riverfront youve got 71 and 75 right there and 275 a couple exits down. Its just more convenient to folks in outlying areas.
OTR would have been a more classic urban ballpark, almost a throwback, but who wants to park their car out there and have to walk a few blocks at 10:30 after a night game?
Sure they would have addressed some of these issues, but then youve got to sell that to fans, and they have to beleive it.
Broadway Commons would have forced the city and county into a badly needed mass transit system for the entire region much, much sooner. People could drive to the transit stations, park, and take the train or shuttle right up to the park's station. In and out, piece-o-cake. But we all know Cincinnati government is still working on the back to the future model of politics.
Broadway Commons would not have forced Cincinnati into using a mass transit system..that has gotta be the most moronic thing I have ever seen..and I am an advocate for mass transit
It's a done deal now, but at the time I was for putting the Reds park where P.B. Stadium is now with the neat skyline in view in the outfield. But Mikey was threatening to move the Bengals, so the county gave him the best site on the riverfront. The Bengals stadium with only 8 weekends a year would have been a better fit at Broadway Commons with Mt. Adams in the background.
no stadium would have been good in close proximity to the jail..move on
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