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From news of the day to news of the weird, John Fay provides a glimpse of what it’s like to cover the Cincinnati Reds

John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2008

Volquez in new territory

Edinson Volquez hasn't allow more than one earned run in any of his first seven starts. No Reds pitcher had accomplished that feat since earned runs became an official statistic in 1912, according to courtesy Elias Sports Bureau.

Volquez was able to throw seven shutout innings on a day he struggled with his control -- six walks. He threw 118 pitches. But he threw a 95 mph fastball to last batter he faced.

“The thing about him is he has the stuff to strike himself out of trouble,” Dusty Baker said. “A lot of guys don’t have that ability. We’d still like to see him minimize his pitches some, so he can go deep into games.

“We’ll take what he’s doing now.”


110 Comments:

at 4:43 PM Blogger r.m. largent said...

I commented on Hal McCoy's blog - I'll comment the same here; can we skip either Arroyo's or Belisle's starts this weekend and keep the other guys on regular schedules?

 
at 4:50 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

you can really appreciate Volquez if you see him in person..his arm speed is fantastic..I hope he pans out..Dont know about Cueto just yet.

 
at 4:54 PM Blogger Mike said...

Dusty is giving me nightmeres though keeping him in for the 7th

 
at 5:01 PM Blogger Lets Talk Reds Blogger said...

This may go down as one of the best Win-Win trades ever.

(Not to jump the gun or anything)

LetsTalkReds.com

 
at 5:11 PM Blogger cmdugan34 said...

Sign Volquez and cueto long term like the rays did to longoria...John, what are the reds gonna do for arroyo's start saturday? If they do nothing it will be arroyo v. santana. Not a good matchup at all.

 
at 5:13 PM Blogger Zippy said...

In an earlier thread, John Fay wrote:

"If the only stat matters in wins and losses. IT should be noted that the Reds are 4-2 in the games Volquez hasa played in. The Rangers are 14-20 in the games Hamilton has played in."

Were you being facetious? I sure hope so. If not, I'll just point out that the Reds are 5 and 6 in games Hairston has appeared in, compared to 3 and 5 in the games Harang has pitched. Does that make Hairston the more valuable player? Would you trade Harang for Hairston because of Hairston's higher winning percentage?

 
at 5:29 PM Blogger ST fan said...

V for Victory, Volquez, and Votto. GO VEDS! Vusty Vacker is now a great manager!

 
at 5:45 PM Blogger Greg said...

10 yrs ago Kerry Wood thru 130+ in his 9 inning 20k game... Dusty wasn't the manager... Kerry's issues started long before Dusty. this "Dusty is horrible for young arms" theory is idiotic. not to mention Kerry had awful mechanics.

Big props to Volquez! got the job done even though he struggled at times, he got himself on the right track when he needed to!

Could this line up be the answer? i think at least 1 player wrote his name in concrete for the majority of the season in the 5 hole. and again... i know everyone will agree... our leadoff hitter made another statement today why he's not a lead off hitter.

 
at 6:14 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Zippy: Someone on this blog says the only stat that matters is wins and losses. Said person all is a big Josh Hamilton guy. That was my point.

 
at 6:15 PM Blogger Greg said...

oh ya... kerry wood was 20 yrs old...
volquez is what? 24ish?.. he should be able to handle 118.

 
at 6:15 PM Blogger Greg said...

oh ya... kerry wood was 20 yrs old...
volquez is what? 24ish?.. he should be able to handle 118.

 
at 6:17 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Team wins and losses is the bottom line. Ask The Amazing Krivsky.
ST CSA

 
at 6:23 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

only stat that matters to me is wins and losses..and the cost of the riverview cheap seats at the park

 
at 6:39 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

John..lets not attack other chatters

thank you

JBA

 
at 6:45 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

"i think at least 1 player wrote his name in concrete for the majority of the season in the 5 hole."

I would say he just bought a shot at the 3 hole (IMO)

Ive been saying Votto should bat there(3)for 3 weeks.

Hes the best hitter on the team (right now) but I think Kepp and EE will give him a run for his money. Kepp and EE arent 3 hole guys though.

Hopper (CF)
Kepp
Votto
EE
BP
Bruce (LF)
Griffey (RF)
Bako
Pitch

This needs to be the lineup as soon as logistically possible.

 
at 6:49 PM Blogger CoachD178 said...

I know it can be tempting to tweak Volquez in order to make him go an inning or two later, but they need to let it happen naturally. Jake Peavy had the same questions/concerns his first couple of years in the bigs. Just a part of his game he needs to work through, instead of being coached through.

As for being certain of Volquez and not yet on Cueto, think about this. At the age of 22 for Texas Edinson had an ERA of 7.20 in 8 starts. He walked (17) more batters than he struck out (15) in 33 innings. At the age of 22 for Cincinnati, in a hitters park, Cueto has a 5.27 ERA in 41 innings. His K/BB ratio is 41/8. He has had one really rough outing and a bad inning in two others. But he kid has shown tremendous potential, and rallied back against a darn good lineup after getting shelled in St. Louis.

With those two kids, along with Aaron Harang the Reds have a really nice looking 1, 2, 3 starting pitching rotation for the next several years. If Homer Bailey develops, wow, scary good.

 
at 6:55 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

the point of the stat is that a pitcher has more impact on the games they play versus a hitter. i can't believe REDS fans, a franchise that's had NO pitching all decade and beyond, want another five-tooler. five-toolers are the only players the reds have developed in the last 10 years and look how that went. and whoever said "i don't know about cueto yet" must not be watching. cueto has struggled, but he still has a 5.2 era, better than the 7.8 combined era of arroyo and belisle. neither one of those pros are new to the big leagues.

 
at 7:05 PM Blogger ST fan said...

Maybe BC should take Paterson's pay out of Baker's salary?

 
at 7:12 PM Blogger ST fan said...

As I said on another thread, Volquez is part of 5 Reds wins and Hamilton is part of 14 Texas wins. Who's more valuable? Stats sure can be used to prove ANY posit, even stupid ones like this one.

Hey it is nice to have three good starters: Hanang, Volquez, and Cueto, and 2 days of snow. Way back with 4-man rotations, it was Spann and Sain, and 2 days of rain. (and they won it)

 
at 7:34 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Cuetos 2-3 record and 5.27 era aint nothing to be bragging about

I see no 5 tool players the Reds have developed

 
at 7:36 PM Blogger Icedawg said...

John,
Did anyone ask Dusty why he let Volquez throw 118 pitches when he had a 9 run lead? Isn't it better to save the arm a little bit since it is going to be a long season?

 
at 7:38 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

I don't have questions about Cueto. Nor should everyone give up on Belisle yet.

I do understand the concern for Bronson right now as he does not look right.

and Affeldt continues to be a great pick up. Maybe flop Bronson and Affeldt for a few games for yucks.

Arroyo would be fine in the bullpen and maybe Wayne was right about Affeldt after all.

I would like to see them try another starter with a 3 ERA

 
at 7:39 PM Blogger MONEY MIKE said...

There is that old saying that "you cant have your cake and eat it too"...well i liked the old cake we had, hamilton, but i really like the new cake in volquez

wonder how many slices of the volquez's cake people need before they forget their love of hamilton.

Granted I still cant get enough of hamilton...especially in my fantasy league.

All hail Krivdog...sorry to see him go.

 
at 7:49 PM Blogger Matty G said...

"Maybe BC should take Paterson's pay out of Baker's salary?"

That'd get his attention for sure! Aren't they on the same kinda rate? $3 mil?

 
at 7:52 PM Blogger Showtime said...

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but check out Steve Phillips' assessment on what the Reds should do to contend:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3385066

I don't think Dunn will pull the type of players he suggests, but it's this type of maverick and gutsy thinking that would be good for the front office to pursue the next few months, especially if we fall further out of contention.

 
at 7:58 PM Blogger Zippy said...

The value of an individual player can't be judged by his team's record in games he's played. I would think that's pretty obvious, and not even worth debating. By that standard, virtually every closer would be far more valuable than virtually every starting pitcher, and practically everyone on the current Marlins roster would be more valuable than Alex Rodriguez. Why even engage in this sort of nonsensical debate?

 
at 9:25 PM Blogger Mike said...

Why doesn't Hairston keep on playing? He's surely earned it more than Patterson

 
at 9:52 PM Blogger Brick said...

Can we please get over the Volquez/Hamilton trade....IT'S OVER. The trade has been made and both players are serving their new teams well....

What I'd really like to dredge up some more is the horrible Kearns/Lopez trade for Bray and whomever else it was.....wow, what a waste of space that whole topic is...that trade was a bust for both teams. Or, we really should discuss how the Reds could possibly let Pete Rose get away to the Phillies like they did.....that set the franchise back years!

The point is both Volquez and Hamilton are good players and both are doing well for their new teams, but the bottom line is neither player, with their original teams, would create a winning record.

 
at 10:59 PM Blogger firefly118 said...

I am a big Josh Hamilton fan, and hated to see him go, but it was a great move and addressed a need for us. JAY BRUCE....is where we should be doing our complaining. He should be in CF and batting 3rd with Phillips leading off. Trust me, it would work, and Phillips would hit about 15 points better, he is made to bat lead off and nothing else. We do need to make some moves, Griffey (love him) and Freel for another arm or even a speedy .300 hitter in right field, I don't know.....but here is the lineup for right now.

2B PHILLIPS
SS KEPPINGER
CF BRUCE
LF DUNN
1B VOTTO
3B EE
P ??
C BAKO
RF GRIFFEY

I know, WHAT? I have seen the pitcher batting earlier in the lineup and there is some advantages. MAYBE I AM STUPID...BUT LOOK AROUND, WHAT COULD IT HURT!

 
at 11:58 PM Blogger Donkey Dizzle 4's said...

Have any of you ever thought that these pitchers are big boys? No one tells them they HAVE to go out and pitch another inning when their pitch count is high. They choose to do so because they feel strong and able. Jeesh.

 
at 12:06 AM Blogger Dave said...

JBA - I thought you had been a Reds' fan since the early 70s? If you were watching at any point during that time, the list of 5 tool guys would've included:

Joe Morgan (we didn't develop him, though)
Eric Davis
Barry Larkin
Austin Kearns (until his horrible conditioning robbed him of speed and sucked from his batting abilities)
Kal Daniels (see Kearns, with a worse attitude)
Brandon Phillips
Joey Votto (not a speed demon, but for a first baseman, he's got a live arm and could take 20 bags)
Jay Bruce
Drew Stubbs (2 more years, no more than 3)
Chris Dickerson (if he can learn to hit consistently)

Davis and Larkin were as good as it gets and, with some pitching, won a WS. Phillips/Bruce/Votto/Stubbs will trump that lineup, and I'm not so sure Harang/Volquez/Cueto/Bailey doesn't equal a better staff, as well. We all need to continue being patient (like jumping ship on Cueto 41 innings into his career - are you serious! Watch the games!).

 
at 12:48 AM Blogger CoachD178 said...

While I'm not a Dunn fan I don't think the Reds should rush to get rid of him. The Reds have some young guys who are proving they can be middle of the lineup hitters (Phillips, Votto, Encarnacion). This doesn't include arguably the best prospect in baseball in Jay Bruce. Having a guy like Adam Dunn on your roster, if you can somehow afford him, makes sense. He will never be a Gold Glove winner and will never be a big clutch run producer. But having a .260ish hitter who can hit 40 HR, drive in about 100 RBI, walk 100 times, and score about 100 runs in your 6 or 7 spot.

Phillips is a proven commodity I believe. Encarnacion is a legit .280 hitter who can hit 15ish HR's and drive in 75 to 80 RBI's every year. Lets say for arguments sake that Votto and Bruce are legit. Having Dunn following those guys up in the 6 or 7 spot makes the lineup pretty dangerous.

Having Dunn as your best guy, or even 2nd best guy means you won't be a consistent scoring team. When he's hot you'll be fine, when he's not you'll struggle. But having him as a secondary player, or a 6 or 7 hitter makes your lineup dangerous. He won't be asked to carry the team but will give you better numbers than most 6 or 7 hitters. If the Reds want to contend they need a guy like him in their lineup. As I said, it just can't be as their top guy.

 
at 1:16 AM Blogger JerBear said...

Dunn is valuable in certain ways, and at certain times. But I don't he's a guy you need.

The Diamondbacks managed to win 90 games last year with Eric Byrnes being their best every day player.

Very good pitching, very good defense and a scrappy offense can go a long way.

Average pitching, below average defense and a hit or miss offense are pretty much what the Reds have right now. It doesn't go very far!

Wednesday was nice. I thought all the homeruns were great, although it is kind of funny that it takes the Reds 7 homeruns to drive in 9 runs.

But Wednesday showed the potential the Reds lineup has, and a great young pitcher in Volquez.

Volquez has been amazing. I'm curious to see whether he can keep this up. I doubt he stays down there with a 1.06 ERA but if he can finish the year in the 1.50-3.00 ERA range it'll be really encouraging for the Reds future.

 
at 1:31 AM Blogger Dave said...

Coach, very good point - you can't rely on inconsistent hitters to propel a lineup. Dunn is probably too expensive to keep as a 3rd or 4th option with Votto, Bruce, Keppinger, and Phillips providing the daily spark. However, I add another argument to the mix - with Griffey leaving for Bruce, who replaces Dunn at a semi-close level? Pat Burrell is older, slower, and less-adept in the field - the only thing he has on Dunn is being a righty (which isn't an advantage in GABP, we're just LH-heavy). That's the only replacement on the FA market who's close. Dickerson isn't MLB-ready, nor is Gil (as a starter). Patterson can't hit his weight, Freel breaks down, and Stubbs is a few years off. We either need to play Keppinger out in LF or EE, otherwise we have no suitable replacement. This means Jocketty needs to either re-sign Dunn or look to trade him - it would be a shame to get nothing in return (I'd take a young middle-reliever now and a few AA prospects - everyone knows we're not looking to keep him).

 
at 7:13 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

This team has developed very few "5 tool " players in recent history

We did an analysis last nite comparing the pitching of the mid 70s to that of last season 2007

Add 1.3 to the 1975 Reds era and subtract 2.6 wins..This made that staff very average in 2007 terms

The everyday ballplayers carried the Big Red Machine

To minimize the importance of a good everyday player is foolish. Put just a couple on this team ( Bench, Rose) and you would see a remarkable difference on this current team

Cueto is a young pitcher learning his trade and should eventually be very good. Is he very good or great now? absolutely not

 
at 7:56 AM Blogger ST fan said...

CoachD has it right on Dunn. Take what he has to give and bat him 6 or 7. He'll do fine. Bt don't try, a la, Baker, to turn him into a Mickey Mantle and don't pay him $13,000,000. He's a good player as is but not a super star. Keep him unless a GM offers LOTs in return.

 
at 8:38 AM Blogger Dizzylo86 said...

John, do you know what the rotation looks like for the next five games? Are they going to skip Arroyo's next start with the hopes that the time off might help him get back on track, while allowing both Cueto and Harang to pitch against the Mets?

 
at 9:02 AM Blogger robdicken said...

CSA and JBA....4-6 minutes apart every time they post. HA!

Volquez is the real deal. So is Cueto. Cueto had a few bad outings, but every pitcher gets beat up once in awhile, especially rookies.

I do remember the posting on here by a man named Cheviot Sports Authority, saying to give him 4-5 starts before we judge on how good the kid is. 7 starts into the season, NL ERA leader, 5-1 on the year, and 52 strikeouts...he's good!

 
at 9:24 AM Blogger reaganspad said...

Dave, I would add Paul O'Neill to your 5 tool development list.

Not sure we can take credit for Phillips as we have him (thankfully), but did not develop him.

 
at 9:26 AM Blogger John Fay said...

Arroyo is listed as the starter for the second game in New York.

 
at 9:28 AM Blogger Dustin said...

Cueto's WHIP is 1.12 and he has as many strikeouts as innings pitched. Those are very good for any starting pitcher, let alone a 22 year old pitching in his first big league season.

 
at 9:33 AM Blogger robby said...

Barry Larkin is the last 5 tool player the Reds drafted and developed. There is not one 5 tool player on the Reds current major league roster.

People write on this site about this great offensive juggernaut the Reds have been fielding have been watching a different team than I have been watching for the last 7 plus years. The last 2 days are the last 7 years in microcosm No home runs one day and shut out, multiple home runs the next day and a win. The Reds score in bunches and struggle to score for long stretches of time. That is not the definition of a great offensive team, but more to the point the Reds have not drafted and developed too many 5 tool players in recent memory. If and when Jay Bruce or Drew Stubbs excel in the majors maybe we can put them on a list of 5 tool players that have been developed by the Reds in this century. (that would make 2)

 
at 9:45 AM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

Volquez, Votto, Cueto

All three doing things few or no others have done.

Volquez's era through 7 starts

Cuetos incredible debut

Votto, only first baseman in the history of MLB to hit 3 HR and steal a base in a game.

Does this mean they are HOF guys? No.

But it does mean they are legitimate major league starters.

Players ANY team would be happy to have, and as we all know too well, those types have been few and far between for our Redlegs.

Now if you add in BP and Harang, youve got 5 players on this team that fit that description.

Things are getting better in Cincy.

 
at 9:56 AM Blogger Big Red Smokey said...

The Big Red Machine had good pitching and excellent quality everyday players...but it's not apples to apples with the current climate of todays game. There are very few teams (one or 2 maybe) that could even remotely afford a team of superstars and future HOF'ers like the Reds could in the mid 70's. The economics of baseball were different.

But because it's Jack... he will continue to pound us with his lack of baseball knowledge like a 4 year old until somebody agrees with him out of pity.

Quality pitching is MUCH harder to come by than quality everyday position players..therefore much more valuable. Most of the the Trade dealine moves to shore up teams pushing for the play-offs are looking for pitching. Is there the occasional exception..sure. But pitching is the hot commodiity.

And to strike a comepetive balance of both is what small market teams like the Reds have struggled with for years. See: Jim Bowden and his love for the 5 tooled outfielder of the future. We had lots of them..to the expense of any decent pitching. Where did that land us??? Bottom of the barrel.

Wow. Can't believe I even have to argue the point.

 
at 9:59 AM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

If you count the two run blast by Jorge Cantu last nite, the Reds had eight homers yesterday.
St CSA

 
at 10:25 AM Blogger Bob Loblaw said...

Wouldn't it be great if Hamilton wins the AL MVP and Volquez wins the NL Cy Young? Not that either will, just sayin' it would be pretty sweet.

 
at 10:38 AM OpenID bashbrother12 said...

john i was looking through the box score of the dayton dragons yesterday and even though the game was rained out i saw last years number 1 pick devin m. in the lineup does that mean hes been moved up to dayton ? also i did not see valiaka in the box score for sarasota has he been moved up to aa ?

 
at 10:47 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Cueto is a very young pitcher learning to pitch in the majors. Hes not very good right now but someday should be.. He has very good potential

A 2-3 record and 5.27 era aint nothing to write home about

I heard Cantu had a homerun and 2 more RBIs last nite. Hes probably happy to be on Florida


good post Robby

 
at 10:51 AM Blogger John Fay said...

look at the minor matters post. It's all there. Yes, they've been moved.

 
at 10:59 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Cueto had a decent opening game..that does not mean hes a legitimate major league starter..big stretch

we win one game and all of a sudden things are "getting better " for the Reds..?

there are very few teams that good even afford the good pitching( not great) that the Reds had in 75 and 76..it goes both ways

by the way..when you consider Kentucky, Indiana, WV..we are no longer a "small market" club

I am fully aware of the necessity of good pitching. Yet my point stands.. get a few good players like a Bench or Morgan and it can positively affect the team over the course of a season rather than once every five days

By the way..Harang is a very good pitcher..and his record is? Thats what you get without support from your everyday field players

And of course you have another postulate to consider..getting a good pitcher is a crapshoot compared to getting a good everyday field player

see: Arroyo, Zito, Gagne etc

 
at 11:00 AM Blogger robdicken said...

If you count the two run blast by Jorge Cantu last nite, the Reds had eight homers yesterday.

Jorge Cantu only has 12 RBIs so far this year TOTAL in the heart of the Marlins lineup. Again, he's not good. And he's only batting .273.

Nice try.

 
at 11:01 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

I am perhaps one of the only two or three visitors to this blog that had the Reds playing at .500 or below. It would appear I know baseball better than suggested

thank you JAB

 
at 11:05 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Griffeys batting .244 , Dunn .219 Patterson .200 ill take Cantu

 
at 11:32 AM Blogger Big Red Smokey said...

"by the way..when you consider Kentucky, Indiana, WV..we are no longer a "small market" club"

Again..Jack..you have no idea what you are talking about. It's not the geographical size of the market..LMAO..oh my God...I think I'm going to die laughing..whew...

Thanks for being so clueless...and arguing points you have no business...

 
at 11:34 AM Blogger Big Red Smokey said...

Hey Jack...

I hear there is a reds fan club in eastern MI...can we include them to even make our market size bigger???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 
at 11:34 AM Blogger robdicken said...

I am perhaps one of the only two or three visitors to this blog that had the Reds playing at .500 or below. It would appear I know baseball better than suggested

You're constantly negative. What else would you say?

This is a small market team Jack. WV is Indians country. So technically, you've got Indiana, Kentucky, and southern Ohio. That's not much to work with. Sorry to burst your proverbial "know-it-all" bubble, but take a trip outside of Cincinnati for once and you'd find that out.

Having good players makes sense, but not over good pitching, Jack. For the past 7 years we've had an offensive juggernaut of a team and absolutely no pitching. When starting pitching is giving up 5-6 runs per game on average, that's hard for any lineup to consistently maintain a winning record with.

Harang has had 16 wins each of the past 2 seasons. We have the same hitters as those two years as well. Your point about that is moot.

And of course you have another postulate to consider..getting a good pitcher is a crapshoot compared to getting a good everyday field player

see: Arroyo, Zito, Gagne etc


Another moot point. I don't think anyone here expected Arroyo to pitch as well as he did in 2006 form. I know I didn't...but Arroyo was not "amazing" in Boston either. Zito is a rare exception...how were the Giants to know he would not perform like he did in Oakland? It's a rarity that something like that happens especially after numerous successful years in the Majors.

Look at Joe Nuxhall throughout his career with the Reds...pitched well for them. Got traded to Kansas City and stunk it up (eventually leading to a release). It happens, but it doesn't mean that the pitcher is terrible. How can a team predict failure after numerous seasons of success? Your logic doesn't make sense. And it DEFINITELY doesn't make good pitching "over rated."

Gagne was on roids early in his career. He was in the Mitchell Report. Enough said.

You can stand by your points and comments all you want, but it doesn't mean that you're right.

Great hitting and bad pitching gets you no where. Look at the Yankees for the last year and this year. Take a look at Arizona last year and this year.

We really need to quit comparing The Big Red Machine to our current team or any team from here on out...that was possibly the BEST team in Major League History. It cannot be duplicated.

 
at 11:39 AM Blogger robdicken said...

Griffeys batting .244 , Dunn .219 Patterson .200 ill take Cantu

What does Patterson have to do with Cantu? Cantu wouldn't be leading off or playing center field, so that doesn't make any sense.

So you'd rather have 12 RBIs rather than 15 and 16? That doesn't make any sense either.

 
at 11:58 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

GABP would sell out or be close to being sold out every game
if the Reds put a winner on the field.

When you factor in the demographics of Northern Kentucky( down to Lexington), Indiana(west to Indianapolis), Ohio ( north to Columbus), the Reds are not a small market team ..do your research.

Furthermore "small market teams" have won the World Series an equal number of times as major market teams over the course of the past 16/17 years

Small market is a catch word for people that make excuses

yeah we have an offensive juggernaut

why did we sign Arroyo to such a large contract if we did not expect him to perform?

Zito was not a rarity..do your research..

nobody was comparing the Big Red Machine to our current team..the discussion was pitching..pay attention

 
at 11:58 AM Blogger Brandon said...

Just to put all the Hamilton trade talks to rest as of right now we traded Micky Mantle for Nolan Ryan looks to work out for both teams doesn't it.

Harang who by the way showed frustration and anger for the first time I can remember in his last start all be it a small amount. When he gave up those 2 runs he just got mad shook off Bako on everything but the heat for about 4 pitchs and burned it in there at 95, and dominated Pie I laughed pretty hard. If this team does not start supporting Harang he is going to lose a lot of drive its a crime he is 1 - 5 with a 3 era he is pitching better then he ever has and has nothing to show for it.

Also to clear up this mess we have trade Dunn and trade Jr. after he gets 600 or when June hits if we are still doing sub par.

Move Votto to left and Keppinger to first when Gonzo comes back. Play Bruce in right and Freel/Hopper in center.

1. Freel/Hopper
2. Keppinger
3. Votto
4. EE
5. BP
6. Gonzo
7. Bruce
8. Bako/Ross

Also get Arroyo out of town asap bring Bailey up and also trade Fogg back to the Rockies and bring Bray back up. Affeldt can handle long man when the need arises. Thank the lord Stormy is looking a lot better we actually have a good looking bullpen.

 
at 12:09 PM Blogger Bogey said...

Mr Showtime, I would gladly make all those trades that Phillips mentioned. I believe that is a plan that would work wonders.

 
at 12:14 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

per capita income of the tri state area I mentioned falls within the top 13 % in the country..demographic increases in the same area are in the top 8%..we are far from a small market area..We will never be a NY, Boston, or Chicago..but our market is strong and growing

 
at 12:17 PM Blogger Big Red Smokey said...

My bad Jack...I should listen to you because you know everything..contrary to what the rest of the world describes as what makes a small market team.

John..this Jack guy...is he a plant? Someone to say things so ridiculous that it spurs debate? He cannot be real. Nobody is that unknowledgeable..are they?

 
at 12:26 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

DL Bedard has nice outting shuts down Hamilton (0-3) last night but still loses, now 2-2 after 5 starts

Again the question for GM in Blue Ash. Would you rather have Bedard and Hamilton or

Voquez, Votto, Cueto, Stubbs et al. ?

I listen to Joey Votto with the media and I am glad he is a Red. Volquez is refreshing too, tell Cueto he better get into the cage after his hit.

Not only do we still have more talent by the moves made, we also have better guys for the media

 
at 12:30 PM Blogger robdicken said...

why did we sign Arroyo to such a large contract if we did not expect him to perform?

A big contract? League average salary is $3.5 million per year. Isn't Arroyo making like $5? Again...not making any sense.

We didn't expect him to perform the way he did in 2006. We signed him to a deal after that year. After 2006, YES we expected him to perform...ABSOLUTELY!! We traded for him in 2006...we didn't sign him to a "big contract" then. So once again...your argument really doesn't make any sense!

do your research

Where have you done yours? You do realize that the majority of Indiana are Cubs country, the north and eastern part of Ohio and WV is Indians country, and much of south western kentucky and tennessee regions are Cardinals country, right? Do you have PROOF that gives indication of the validity of your argument?

Furthermore "small market teams" have won the World Series an equal number of times as major market teams over the course of the past 16/17 years

Maybe so...but how many times have those small market teams GOT to the World Series? Look at the past 16-17 years and see how many times Atlanta, New York, Boston, and St. Louis has gotten to the World Series. Since they are large market teams, they are more capable because of pay roll.

Small market is a catch word for people that make excuses

Excuses? Have you ever heard of common sense? Do you know anything about payroll limits?

You really need to think about what you're saying before you spew it...seriously!

 
at 12:40 PM Blogger robdicken said...

Zito was not a rarity..do your research..

Really?

From 2000-2007 Barry Zito compiled a 113 W to 76 L record, 1227 K, and a 3.62 ERA.

He's not a rarity? I beg to differ, my friend! A guy that had 23 wins in ONE SEASON is not a rarity for performing as bad as he is now?! You seriously need to quit talking about stuff you don't do research on and don't understand. Implicating that this was something to easily predict by San Francisco is absolutely ridiculous. You really need to check yourself!!

nobody was comparing the Big Red Machine to our current team..the discussion was pitching..pay attention

I am paying attention...you just mentioned Bench and Rose and compared them to our team now. Not to mention in 3/4 of your other posts here you've mentioned the '75 and '76 team. Do you have a memory lapse?

 
at 12:49 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

demographically ..we are not very different from St Louis....our catchment area is larger

4 out of the 6 current division leaders are "small market"

signing arroyo to a long term contract was a mistake..as has been made with many pitcher in the major leagues. my thesis is that clubs also make bad decisions signing pitchers

small market teams must have done pretty well the past 15 years if they made it to the World series as often as big market teams

When you factor in the demographics of Northern Kentucky( down to Lexington), Indiana(west to Indianapolis), Ohio ( north to Columbus), the Reds are not a small market team ..do your research.

please see above..you claim to be a computer whiz..do a demographic functional analysis

 
at 1:01 PM Blogger Zippy said...

Why is it okay for people to keep posting comments about Larkin, Bench, Rose, etc.? Those guys are RETIRED. They will NEVER play for the Reds again. EVER. As some of you would say: "get over it already -- it's time to move on."

On the other hand, Hamilton, Cantu, Kearns, and Lopez are all active players, all with some connection to the current-day Reds, and all could conceivably play for the Reds again someday. Thus, it seems to me that comments about those players and their value to the Reds are much MORE relevant to this blog, which, as I understand it, focuses mostly on current, future, and potentially future Reds.

 
at 1:02 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

we use demographicsnow.com..the information provided is dead on

 
at 1:12 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

jack is dead wrong about EVERYTHING else, esp. cantu, hamilton, griffey and his 7 year theory, but cincinnati is not a small market. it's a cute excuse for past ownership, and might apply to the bengals, but not the reds. se indiana, half of ohio, ky, wva and parts of tn are all reds country. we used to have a farm in indianapolis and could easily get that city back with a winner. gabp is a lot closer than the jake or wrigley. the reds have one of the biggest national fanbases of any franchise. again, don't normally agree with doc but he's right. field a winner, and all of those fans that WANT to come back will come, and this team will be a national brand again rather quickly. but first they have to make some moves on that roster. far too much dead weight.

i read steve phillips column on the reds, and it would be nice, but if it was that easy, i hope jocketty could pull off some even better deals. the phil hughes for burton, affeldt and maybe arroyo is interesting. tinkering with what's working is dangerous, but with thompson, viola, roenicke and herrera, that could be a thought. i'm for moving freel, hatte and fogg as soon as possible.

 
at 1:14 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

the issue with zito was not his record..but the fact that spending a ton of money on a pitcher does not always work out..pay attention

has Zito been a bad investment or not?..it does not take a PH.D to see results

I never compared Bench and Rose to the team we had now.. I said that players like Bench or Rose could have a very positive impact on our team.. Compare them to whom? back up your thesis


please stick to attacking posts rather than posters as Mr fay requested

 
at 1:15 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Griffey $12 mil
Dunn $13 mil
Pattersib $3.5 mil
Cantu $500,000
Seems to me it would have made a lot of sense to keep Cantu as a RH part time player, especially since we already had him. LOL
St CSA

 
at 1:18 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

actually zippy..all kidding aside

The Cantus , Hamiltons, etc dont belong in the same Reds ballpark as Larkin, Bench and Rose etc.

Because you don't like the topic does not make it any less bearing.

 
at 1:18 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

DUMB QUOTE OF THE DAY:
"A big contract? League average salary is $3.5 million per year. Isn't Arroyo making like $5? Again...not making any sense."

The Reds owe Arroyo $9mil for 2009 and $11.5 mil for 2010. I call that a big contract for a very bad pitcher.
ST CSA

 
at 1:22 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

24/7 thank you..you have a good understanding of demographics

my posts on Cantu and Hamilton are comedic in nature..dont take em seriously

I am not wrong about the record of this club the last seven years. Nor, according to all polls and responses that I have read, that Ken Griffey needs to go

I agree Chevy we could have used his bat.. another WK blunder

 
at 1:52 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

OK GUYS HERES WHAT SMALL MARKET MEANS:

It has NOTHING to do with how many people live near the stadium.

There is a whole world out there, and MLB is an international product.

Im going to use some fictional numbers to illustrate my point.

Lets just say that there are 100 million baseball fans in the world,
those 100 million fans are divided between the 30 teams (and not evenly).
This means that some teams have more fans than others.

Those fans buy tickets, merchandise, programming packages.

This money finds its way to the teams. This is revenue. On top of this revenue is revenue gained through television contracts. All television contracts are not equal.

In short, when dealing with an international product, your market is your customer base NOT your geographic area.

The Reds have less fans, so they sell less tickets and less merchandise, their television contracts are smaller than others, this means LESS REVENUE.

Now, even though their revenue is lower, their overhead is virtually the same, (facilities, employees, etc. etc..)So, they make less money.

So, to summerize, the Reds have a SMALLER share of the MLB MARKET

Hence the term: SMALL MARKET

 
at 2:00 PM Blogger robdicken said...

demographically ..we are not very different from St Louis....our catchment area is larger

4 out of the 6 current division leaders are "small market"


Looking at city populations alone....we are ranked as the 56th largest city in the nation. Our biggest prospect city in our market is Columbus (15th) with Louisville (26th) shortly afterwards. Combining those cities together with Cincinnati (a total of 1,619,951 people), we're STILL not even ranked in the Top 10 markets of the country.

Indiana/Indianapolis is not even considered Reds country. Why? They have the Colts and Pacers. Indiana is a basketball state...do a little digging into their history to find out more about that. Anything north of Indianapolis is Cubs country and Notre Dame fans.

Are we a large market? No. Are we small market? Compared to the rest of the country...yes we are.

Income doesn't really have much to do with the market if the fans aren't coming to the games, Jack. If Boston sucked, the Cubs sucked, and the Yankees sucked...the fans would still go to the games...that's the difference!

I can make $150,000 a year...but what significance is that if I don't go to the games?

the issue with zito was not his record..but the fact that spending a ton of money on a pitcher does not always work out..pay attention

It never worked out for the Yankees? Roger Clemens? Mike Mussina?

It never worked for the Twins with Johan Santana? It's not working for the Mets now?

It's not worked out for the Braves and Tim Hudson? It's not worked out for the Cubs and Carlos Zambrano?

I am paying attention...and again...you're not making any sense.

As I said...Barry Zito is a rarity. When presented with proof and statistics, you collapse once again!

has Zito been a bad investment or not?..it does not take a PH.D to see results

And again...answer the question: How can a team predict failure from previous success?

Seems to me it would have made a lot of sense to keep Cantu as a RH part time player, especially since we already had him. LOL

So we should keep a right handed hitter who can't hit well against lefties...in a lineup that already doesn't hit well against lefties...YEAH! That's makes perfect sense!

Not to mention, let's keep a guy that just can't drive in runs in the heart of a lineup. Sounds SMART!!

BTW, if the Reds kept Cantu...he'd be making close to what Patterson makes. ARBITRATION!!! Read up on it for the 50 billionth time. Your comments are the same every single time and have no backing. Therefore, you're not making any sense...just like your brother Jack.

The Reds owe Arroyo $9mil for 2009 and $11.5 mil for 2010. I call that a big contract for a very bad pitcher.

You're right about that. Stupid money right now. But coming into the 2007 season (after a great 2006 All-Star season), it was worth it to sign him for that. This year he is only getting paid $3.95 million.

Again...how do you predict failure from success? You can't. The argument is moot.

I still don't think Arroyo is a bad pitcher. I think something is physically wrong with him.

Not a good start to the year...I will say that. But if you're basing it off last year, Arroyo had a majority of quality starts and very little run support...that ultimately brought his win/loss record to an all-time low.

please stick to attacking posts rather than posters as Mr fay requested

Disagreement is not attacking Jack. You ganging up with your 3 separate IDs on posters...that's attacking. Consistantly posting sheer opinionated diatribes and disregarding factual information is ATTACKING other posters.

You need to really get off your high horse and quit blaming people for the same exact things you continually do!

 
at 2:03 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

"the reds have one of the biggest national fanbases of any franchise. "

Not according to merchandise sales figures.

Ive live in Florida and if when I do see someone in Reds gear its someone in my family.

Never see Reds fans, and you know whats funny, I never see marlins or rays fans either.

Its

Yankees
Red Sox
Dodgers
Cubs
Mets
Cardinals

 
at 2:14 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

rob..do a demographic study encompassing the areas i mentioned..not just the major cities..you are wrong do your research

So, to summerize, the Reds have a SMALLER share of the MLB MARKET

Hence the term: SMALL MARKET

rob please correct kevin..I can I am laughing too hard

 
at 2:31 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

rob..your lengthy expose does not even begin to take in the population for the entire region..do a demographic analysis..city populations alone are not reflective of entire regions..very simplistic rob

Income means a great deal..especially in bad economic times.. the fans in our catchment area can afford games

I am not going to debate
successful vs unsuccessful deals for pitchers in baseball . For every good deal made there is a bad deal made

we are obligated to arroyo for the sums that were mentioned..it does not matter what he is just making for this year.

I did not ask you if the team should have signed Zito considering his past performance.. As the deal stands now..it is terrible..

 
at 2:33 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Still another novel by Dr Dicken, Richie Rich, et al. LMAO.
St CSA

 
at 2:34 PM Blogger MUBG said...

How can the same people who complain about Griffey and Dunn's contracts holding the Reds back year after year then turn around and argue that making moves to shore up the pitching staff will also hamstring a team’s future? The same crowd who so vocally call for the end of the Griffey/Dunn era of homeruns, poor pitching, and suspect defense are also the people constantly lamenting the loss of Josh Hamilton despite the brilliant efforts thus far by Edison Volquez. They wanted Dunn and Griffey dropped for anything possible over the last three or four years so that salary could have been put towards such stellar pitching names as Barry Zito, Gil Meche, Carlos Silva, Carl Pavano, Jason Schmidt, Matt Clement, Matt Morris, Jon Lieber, Kris Benson, and Freddy Garcia, and we could have kept “surefire Hall of Famer” Josh Hamilton. By their own admission free agent contracts with pitchers are inherently risky, as this list suggests, but then they lambaste trading young positional players for young pitching? For this team to compete some of its young positional players were going to have to be moved to improve the pitching, no relief was to be found on the free agent market; the Reds were flush with young left-handed hitters (Hamilton, Votto, and Bruce) thus they dealt from a position of strength in order to fill a hole in a perennial area of weakness. Yet hypersensitive Reds fans complain…

 
at 2:39 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

jack,

if the cantu and hamilton thing aren't serious, why jerk people's chains? nobody wants to be thought of as a jerk, right?

kevin,

when the reds win, we'll see the fans come out. dusty would tell us how big the reds were when they were winners. the middle-aged and older fan is the diehard baseball fan, and they seen the reds dominate baseball. that's our constituency, not bandwagon boston fans and dreaming cubbie fans. the reds are a middle market, period.

rob,

city proper isn't a good way to look at any city to judge market size. boston has less city residents than columbus, and st. louis has about the same as cincinnati.

there are only five true baseball towns left. look at the rest and see how big they are nationally and ask yourself, why couldn't the oldest team in sports with one of the richest histories in sports join them in media success?

new york
boston
chicago
st. louis
cincinnati

 
at 2:42 PM Blogger robdicken said...

Jack...share of the MLB market has nothing to do with per capita income, geographic area, or population for that matter.

Read Kevin's post. The explanation is the correct description of the MLB market. It further proves that your ideology on just about every subject is skewed from the truth because of lack of knowledge.

I'll give your props...you tried. But what you researched doesn't have anything to do with the MLB Market.

Again...constant disregard, my friend. CONSTANT disregard for logic and facts!

 
at 2:43 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

SECOND DUMBEST POST OF THE DAY, BY THE SAME PERSON:
"BTW, if the Reds kept Cantu...he'd be making close to what Patterson makes. ARBITRATION!!! Read up on it for the 50 billionth time. Your comments are the same every single time and have no backing. Therefore, you're not making any sense...just like your brother Jack"

#1. For what possible reason do you base your statement that Cantu would be getting $3.5 mil if he had gone to arbitration? The man is making $500,000. That is just plain STUPID.
2. I have never met Jack, and for you to keep insinuating that I use multiple IDs to post on a blog continues to show your immaturity and ignorance as does your need to continually copy & paste other bloggers' posts and then try to discredit them.
ST CSA

 
at 2:45 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

kevin,

ohio is a cold weather, dying rust belt state. there are plenty of ohioans in florida. EVERY time i visit fla, i see all kinds of ohioans (not family), and usually randomly bump into someone from cincinnati. half of florida seems to be made up of new york, jersey, virginia and ohio transplants. you actually live there, but my impression of that was strong.

 
at 2:46 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

I don't think anything done over the course of the past two years could have helped this team

you need systems in place

if you think keeping Griffey and Dunn help this team you certainly are in a minority

its far more than a lack of good pitching that has crippled this team

Hamilton has been pretty good himself.. Did he not just win the Player of the Month award ?

I love Mr Redlegs favorite word "diatribe"

 
at 2:49 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Rangers were not that taken with Volquez..maybe they would have taken some cash and a minor league player

 
at 2:54 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

Yankees Continue To Dominate MLB Licensed Merchandise Sales
The Yankees hold a dominating 25.4% market share of MLB licensed merchandise sales, according to data from SportsOne Source. After ranking second among MLB teams in ’06, the Tigers are seventh so far this year. The following presents the top teams in terms of market share for MLB licensed merchandise sales in ‘07 through April 1 (DETROIT NEWS, 4/3).

TOP MLB TEAM MARKET SHARES FOR LICENSED MERCHANDISE SALES FOR
'07 THROUGH APRIL 1
TEAM MARKET SHARE
Yankees 25.4%
Red Sox 8.2%
Cubs 6.7%
Cardinals 6.2%
Dodgers 5.8%
White Sox 5.7%
Tigers 5.6%
Mets 4.6%
Braves 4.3%
Phillies 3.1%



The Reds just dont have enough fans outside of the tristate.


Jack you may think Im wrong but you just dont understand the proffesional sports industry.

Ticket sales are but a fraction of the big picture. The teams that are really making money, like the Yankees, make money off fans that have never even been to the new york metropolitan area.

You have made a grave error in your analisys. You are basing your research on a regional company whose only revenue comes from sales to customers in a given geographic area. MLB is an international entity.

Answer this, when a Japanese baseball fan goes into a store in Tokyo and sees a Matsui Yankees Jersey and a Griffey Reds jersey, and he buys the Yankee jersey, which team makes money?

Your thinking small time, baseball is big time and youre ignoring that fact.

 
at 2:57 PM Blogger robdicken said...

2 minutes apart for each post for CSA and JBA throughout this blog. PRICELESS!! LOL


Jack, your argument about Zito was based on if the deal was a bad deal for the San Francisco Giants. At the time, it was not a bad deal because he was one of the best pitchers in the game.

As the deal stands right now, it was a bad deal. But just as quickly as it is a bad deal, it could turn around to be a good deal.

So really...what's the point in the argument? You were arguing that Barry Zito's deal was a bad deal. You did not state WHEN it was a bad deal, you just said it was a bad deal. My response was that it wasn't at the time he was signed.

Are either of us wrong? Nope. Time to move on.

Income means a great deal..especially in bad economic times.. the fans in our catchment area can afford games

Income and population has NOTHING to do with MLB market share. I'm not sure why it's hard to understand this! Let John Fay explain it for you!

I am not going to debate
successful vs unsuccessful deals for pitchers in baseball . For every good deal made there is a bad deal made


Because you would lose the debate, Jack. There are pitchers that are few and far in between that do not perform up to the standards of their long-term contracts.

I can only name a few off the top of my head: Eric Milton, Kei Igawa, and Carl Pavano

I'm really sick of debating common sense with you. If you want to act like you're 13 and make irrational comments based on pure emotion and opinion, I'm sure the Disney Channel has a set of blogs and message boards you can post on.

 
at 3:14 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

I have a 28 page catalog from MLB.com with all of the 08 merchandise. In those 28 pages, which have several products on each page, there are only 5 examples of products shown in the Reds version of that product.

For you marketing geniuses that have done the research on demographics, can you tell me why that is?

Ponder this, if a teams market share of revenue was soley based on ticket sales, could they even field a team?

For the last time, small market has little to do with how many people live close enough to go to a game. It is an international product, the Reds problem is that outside the tristate, (relatively) noone is spending money on the Reds product.

 
at 3:28 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

24/7

I agree, if the Reds return to glory, more fans will return, and Cincy should be a popular front runner given their history. And because of this 21st century global marketplace, there is no reason, a smaller less populus market team couldnt surpass larger more populus market teams in sales. They just have to win over the baseball fans.

But this discussion is not future tense. Were talking today, 2008, and the fact is, the Reds are a little fish in the big pond of a global market.

Their peice of the pie is really a scrap of crust.

 
at 3:36 PM Blogger robdicken said...

CSA, quit insulting posters by calling them "stupid" and "dumb"...I am sure everyone is now in the corner sucking their thumbs because they don't know what to do! HAHAHAHAHA!!

You really don't know what arbitration is, do you? I've explained it to you about 4-5 different times. The Reds signed Cantu at the end of last year for pretty much league minimum (which is already around $400,000 or so). He was due arbitration if he were to re-sign with the Reds.

ARBITRATION is where the player and agent throw out a money figure to an arbitrator, as does the negotiating team. Since league average salary is $3.5 million, you can expect that a similar money figure would have been thrown out to an arbitrator from Cantu and his agent.

Since the Reds let him go, they didn't have to go through arbitration and Cantu was forced to sign for near league minimum again with another team.

Now...after that explanation, do you need it again? That is EXACTLY what arbitration is!! It's not "stupid" "ignorant" or "dumb...it's THE TRUTH! And if you don't like it...then I guess you are the epitome of your name calling game!

You and Jack are the same exact person. You post no less than 2-4 minutes apart throughout this entire blog EVERY SINGLE TIME. I don't find it pure coincidence either.

Quit being contradicting about it...you just called me Richie Rich in another topic, ya silly goose! LOL

 
at 3:36 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

24/7 nothing wrong with a little levity and I appreciate your input on regional demographics

As the deal stands right now, it was a bad deal. Was that so hard?

population and market share go hand in hand as does the ability to actually pay for games during economically difficult times

I feel certain John Fay could provide an endless list of deals for pitchers that have gone bad

Ohio is far from dying..take a trip to Columbus and Cleveland
Most rural areas in most states are going through some hard times

2500 seniors a day die in Florida and are shipped home. try living in Florida April -October..you will miss the cold weather

DIATRIBE

so Rob lets all meet next week and take in a game Long drive?

Kevin got news for ya..merchandise sales have no financial impact on this team one way or another specific to money alloted for players.

Kevin its TV money and revenues from attendance that support all teams.. Merchandise revenues just extra icing on the cake

 
at 3:38 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

"noone is spending money on the Reds product."
.......do you think that the fact that they have stunk for 8 consecutive seasons has anything to do with that? LMAO
ST CSA

 
at 3:44 PM Blogger IndyCat said...

Jack, the distinction between small market and big market is about revenue, not demographics or geographic area. The Reds have ranked consistently in the bottom third of MLB in terms of revenue for at least 10 years (I can find stats going back to 2001). That means we do have fewer resources than the top tier of the league, which includes division rivals Astros, Cubs, and Cards. Most that is based on broadcast revenue, where we will never be as big as Houston, ST. Louis, or Chicago.

We also have the smallest media market of all the teams in MLB. Even Milwaukee and Kansas City are bigger than us.

I will grant you, that putting a consistent winner would improve the picture somewhat by increasing attendance revenue. But consider this: the Big Red Machine at its height only dre about 2.6 million. The Reds have averaged about 2.1 million or so since moving to GABP. So, even the best team in history only puts another 500 - 600k or so in the seats. How much more revenue you think we get from that? Maybe another $10-12 Million? That sill doesn't get us into the top 15 in revenue. So, we have to be smarter with the $$ we do have.

For the record, since 1990, small market teams (those in the bottom third in revenue) have won the World Series 6 times (Reds, Twins, Marlins 2x and Jays 2x). Mid- and Large-market teams have won 11 times (Yankees 4x, Red Sox 2x, White Sox, Cards, D-backs, Braves & Angels). So it's not even up, as you indicated - It's 1/3 of the time.

I don't disagree with the idea of trading Dunn and Griffey, by the way. In fact, I would make all the moves Steve Phillips recommended, especially if we could really get what he indicates we could get. You need to give up something to get something - how much are those guys really worth?

 
at 3:45 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

If the Reds want a bigger peice of the global market, they should sign a Japanese player, and they will start selling Reds gear throughout Asia.

The Dominican players are nice, good players, but noone back in the DR is buying a $95.00 jersey. They just cant afford it.

Japanese baseball fans on the other hand benefit from a strong economy and high employment rates.


Winning a pennant or two and maybe a championship never hurts either.

 
at 3:47 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

rob you were way off target about Arroyos salary.. why should we believe you regrading Cantu. I dont think he would have gotten over 1 million

you told us Hamilton was a crackhead and would be injured by now and that Keppinger could not play shortstop

Rob when you graduate from college and learn how to do a meaningful demographic study..let me know mr I make 150k man

rob..easy way to validate whom we are..show up at the park

 
at 3:50 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

indycat..the population base has changed dramatically since 1975 as has the TV money

demographics have everything to do with revenue..you gotta have a winner first

 
at 3:53 PM Blogger robdicken said...

Kevin got news for ya..merchandise sales have no financial impact on this team one way or another specific to money alloted for players.

Kevin its TV money and revenues from attendance that support all teams.. Merchandise revenues just extra icing on the cake


How many games do you see of the Reds on ESPN? Not very many.

You are almost correct...TV time and MERCHANDISE play hand-in-hand with each other. The more you reach a national audience, the more merchandise sales will be made. The Reds do not reach a national audience because of their MLB market share.

 
at 3:53 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

you put a winner on the field consistently, the Reds can average over 3 million a year..

 
at 3:58 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

".......do you think that the fact that they have stunk for 8 consecutive seasons has anything to do with that?"

Of course it does, your point?

"Kevin its TV money and revenues from attendance that support all teams.. Merchandise revenues just extra icing on the cake"

That is changing, and dont you think if the Reds captured the lions share of the Asian market they could demand more for their television rights? A billion people watching Reds games in Reds Jerseys, 12,000 miles from your demographic area you so accurately researched.


By the way, Yankees make so much on merchandise and TV that even if noone went to Yankee games they would still be a viable product. Interesting?

What would happen if noone went to Reds games?

You know it is 2008, not 1980
wake up and smell the 21st century proffesional sports league economics!

 
at 4:00 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

By the way Rob, lets make it interesting, we will put a little wager on it. Bring you wallet.
ST CSA

 
at 4:22 PM Blogger robdicken said...

By the way Rob, lets make it interesting, we will put a little wager on it. Bring you wallet.

Okay, Jack!

 
at 4:23 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

there is more than enough revenue for this franchise to field a winner if they manage smartly.. yankees have not done so great recently

end of debate

John set up a night or day at the park ..we wanna make certain Rob can make it

 
at 4:25 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

jack, I agreed with you yesterday, but you are wacked on this one. Everyone is looking for pitching. It would take Bruce or Hamilton for V. No we could not have traded Griffey/Dunn for V.

BTW, he was their minor league pitcher of the year

"Rangers were not that taken with Volquez..maybe they would have taken some cash and a minor league player"

 
at 5:31 PM Blogger KevinFtMyers said...

"BTW, he was their minor league pitcher of the year"

Reagan, youre correct, its called the Nolan Ryan award. Jack doesnt know this because as usual hes talking out of his behind.

"Rangers were not that taken with Volquez..maybe they would have taken some cash and a minor league player"

JBA,ever hear of google? Check some of this stuff out before you type. Please.

 
at 6:01 PM Blogger robdicken said...

Jack, I go to more games in one week than you go in an entire year.

You're too busy with your nose poked into John's blog here with your 3-4 different IDs to have anything other than a fake lifestyle.

I am still willing to put wagers on JBA, CSA, and ALS being the same person and not being any older than 13 years old. Any takers?

 
at 6:33 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Rob you told us you never go to games during the week because you work 60 hours a week and go to night school

So many stories..hard to keep up

 
at 6:35 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

kevin you got it correct..he was their minor league player of the year but he had a hard time staying up at the majors the last couple of years

they were not that enamored with him

 
at 9:11 PM Blogger robdicken said...

Jack, not once did I say "night school." But nonetheless, I am not going to argue with you on stupid stuff.

I go to about 30-45 games per year, regardless if it's a week day or weekend. I get free tickets from work, from my dad, and I buy them myself. Plenty to go around.

kevin you got it correct..he was their minor league player of the year but he had a hard time staying up at the majors the last couple of years

The guy is only 24, dude. Don't ya think him being really young and inexperienced were the reasons he wasn't in the majors that long? Not very old, man.

He was the TOP Rangers pitching prospect, and he was only in the majors for September call-ups.

He's good dude...not really sure what you're trying to prove by debating otherwise. There's not anything factual to prove on your end.

"Durrr...Volquez wasn't highly regarded there...what is is"

Let's get real, focused, and half way legitimate and quit pulling things from our rear-ends...seriously...it's getting old.

John, he isn't here for comic relief, is he? Because he's definitely laughable!

 
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