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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008

Fogg official

Josh Fogg is officially in the fold. The Reds signed him to a one-year deal Thursday afternoon. Bobby Livingston was placed on the 60-day disabled list to open up a roster spot.

Talks had been going on for some time.

"This is the place I want to be," Fogg said. "I know some guys here. I played with David Ross in college. I thought this was best chance I had to help a club."

Fogg, a 31-year-old right-hander, was 10-9 with 4.94 ERA last year with Colorado. It was the fifth time in six years that he's won at least 10 games.

He'll compete for a spot in the rotation -- emphasis on compete. Fogg is in the group with Homer Bailey, Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto, Matt Maloney and Jeremy Affeldt competing for the two open spots in the rotation.

"He's the most experienced of the guys competing," Wayne Krivsky said. "we feel like it's a good addition."

Fogg, who turned down $5 million from the Rockies, signed for $1 million.

"The offseason didn't go like a lot of free agents planned," Fogg said.


at 2:12 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

AAA Louisville could have an incredible pitching staff.

Starters..Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Maloney, Elizardo Ramirez and Shearn. (Later Livingston)

Bullpen..Bray, Majewski, Coffey, Salmon, Sauerbeck, Roenicke, McBeth and Coultlangus.

at 2:13 PM Anonymous Chris (Atlanta) said...

Good grief. I'm hoping it's either a minor league deal or a 1-year deal for no more than $1 million. I'd rather see him used in long relief and see if one of the youngster with far more upside could give it a go.

What's next? Lofton? Norris Hopper is younger, cheaper and already signed. What's are those guys thinking?

at 2:14 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet Don Gullet could be able to help Fogg with his pitching. Anybody hear what Don Gullet is doing these days?

at 2:16 PM Anonymous schlemdog said...

He made $3.6 million last year.

Does a 1.53 WHIP and .294 BA against with a 4,94 ERA get you a raise?

Very Lohse like numbers and we know what you get with that.

Can the Reds get him for $3 million,1 year?

at 2:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like the addition of Fogg especially if it keeps our young players from being traeded such as Votto, Bailey and Cueto and Maloney.

at 2:18 PM Anonymous schlemdog said...

$1 million. I like it.

Turned down 5 million to take 1? I'm not an economist, but . . .

at 2:20 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

No risk signing at $1 mill/1 yr. Gives them a proven,if not spectacular, insurance arm. The guy regularly wins 10-11 games a year. Not bad for a #4-5 starter. The Reds have had precious few 10 win starters beyond their "ace" the past decade. A no-brainer signing. Having said all that, I am a bit concerned about apparent drift toward mediocre vets at the expense of talented young arms.

at 2:21 PM Blogger capadgett said...

Great deal!! Nothing to lose signing him for $1 million. He was good down the stretch last year and his career #'s at GABP are decent! Worst case scenario is it creates more competition for the young guys.

at 2:26 PM Blogger Patrick said...

whos off the 40 man

at 2:30 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

what is the difference with fogg and blanton? About the same ERA? Yes! About the same amount of wins? Yes! Had to pay him over 4 million a year and give up Bailey and Votto? No!

You guys complain so much with small deals it drives me nuts, it's a deal that's not going to break the bank and save our future!

If Bailey, Cueto, and Volquez are ready then they will pitch, if not insurance.

at 2:30 PM Blogger capadgett said...

Bengal - There is no way Louisville will have that roster, EZ is not in the Reds organization anymore and at least 4 to 5 of those guys will be on the Reds opening day roster. Not sure who you think they will put on their roster to send all of those guys to the minors???

at 2:32 PM Blogger Grizzlyfox said...

Did I miss where Matt Belisle locked up the third spot? He couldn't hold down the 5 spot last year. Say it ain't so.......Here's a good reason why I hate the way it sounds-I went to the 4th(5th?) game of the year last year, and Belisle started in what was I believe a 6-2 win. One year later I now plan on going to the third game of the year. And somehow after Belisle has an atrocious 2nd half he's penciled in to start that game??? I'm gonna have to switch things up and try to see the Haren vs Arroyo matchup in game 2.

at 2:35 PM Blogger Ol' Timey Redsfan said...

This is a good signing for the Reds. By the way Bengal, Ramirez is in Texas and Patrick if you read before you post, you would know that Livington was placed on the 60 day D.L.

at 2:35 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bengal43 said that AAA Louisville could have a great rotation, including Volquez. I thought Volquez is out of options. Anyone know for sure? John Fay?

at 2:38 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Should be an upgrade over Uncle Milty. Also think about this...if the young arms do perform like we want them to, Mr. Fogg could be trade bait at mid season and we could maybe pick up a few nice prospects. Maybe he pitches lights out and solidifies the rotation. Either way it's a win-win for the Reds.

at 2:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not Blanton, but I am not sure a whole lot worse than Blanton. Plus none of the up and comers were moved. All in all, a pretty good move. Of course, all of the Kvrisky haters will say it sucks.

at 2:43 PM Blogger Jon said...





at 2:46 PM Anonymous LetsTalkReds.com said...

I think it's a great deal too. $1 million for a guy with a winning record on a playoff team? I'll take it.

John, you said two open spots? Are you giving Belisle the #3 slot? In my opinion, he is the guy that has the most to prove in camp.


at 2:48 PM Blogger Brad said...


Elizardo Ramirez is with the Rangers now.

at 2:56 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

what is the difference with fogg and blanton? About the same ERA? Yes! About the same amount of wins? Yes!

Are you looking at the same stats as I am?

Joe Blanton - 3.95 ERA, 14-10

Josh Fogg - 4.94 ERA, 10-9

Let's get real. If we're comparing signing Joe Blanton or Josh Fogg...I would MUCH rather have Joe Blanton. We need a good #3 starter, and he would be the perfect fit.

The thing is, The Reds are smarter than giving up Votto and Bailey for him. If we do get Blanton, it will be Votto or Bailey and someone else for him. Not both.

at 3:01 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The other day when this idea was brought up, people were saying our young guys aren't going to develop with all these old guys around. Who says they can't develop a little more at AAA and really help us next year? Seriously, who thinks we're going to win the World Series this year? Who thinks we're going to be in the playoffs? I think we're going to be more and more competitive as the year goes on, but this is clearly a team that is being built for a long run in the near future. Be happy we even have a future. Enjoy the team this year and be grateful that not just next year, but next several years look like Atlanta in the early 90's. Fogg is only insurance that we don't rush one of the young guns and injure them. Great pickup and most of you whiners will be eating your words very soon.

Marc in Kentucky

at 3:02 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Volquez has options.

at 3:02 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bengal43's Lou. roster is UNLIKELY but not impossible.
Starters-Harang,Arroyo,Belisle,Affeldt & Fogg
Relievers-Cordero, Weathers,Burton,Stanton,Valenzuela(Rule 5), and non-roster invitees Mercker & Jon Adkins.

at 3:04 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

horrible signing. he is an average pitcher with below average stuff. Why and the hell would you sign him? We don't trade for Blanton or Bedard to keep these young arms and then we ship them to AAA. Are we trying to win now or later? WTF

at 3:08 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey bengal43.....learn the team you are talking about....Elizardo Ramirez is with the Rangers...

at 3:18 PM Anonymous Scott Botkins said...

The Reds signed a proven pitcher with a winning season in Colorado for 1 million dollars and some of you are complaining? Have you guys been watching the Reds for the past 7-8-9-whatever non-winning seasons? Pitching as been are problem and this guy has shown he can help. This is a good move by the Reds, it's better than trading 3-4 prospects for Bedard.

at 3:19 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Here's the deal on options:

OUT OF OPTIONS: The following players on the 40-man roster do not have options: RHP Bronson
Arroyo, IF Juan Castro, RHP Francisco Cordero, IF/OF Ryan Freel, 1B Scott Hatteberg, IF/OF Jeff
Keppinger, 2B Brandon Phillips, C David Ross, C Javier Valentin and RHP David Weathers.

at 3:21 PM Anonymous Ryan P said...

hahahahaha, bengal43 said that we still have EZ.

I think he gets it.

at 3:24 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are You Kidding Me,You Would Trade The Future For Blanton,Instead Of Paying Fogg 1Mill?? And Your Comparing ERA's When you GOTTA Give Atleast A Pitcher 1 Run Pitching In Colorado? Its A Great Deal For 1yr,the guy got 10 wins in a ballpark where the ball can be a pop up and go out,he has last year playoff history,you all have seen the Market lately,add all that up and add him as a Insurance Policy in case the Young Guns can handle the Workload and save the Future Arms from being traded away..1 million is a Steal..Think About It

Bill from Dayton

at 3:25 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a nice signing. It adds insurance in case some of the youngsters need a little more polish. I much prefer this to trading away any of the prospects for a .500 pitcher like Blanton. At worst, he can be a long man in the pen. If Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Maloney, et. al. are ready, they will be in the rotation, if not, then a guy like Fogg is great to have on standy.


at 3:28 PM Anonymous makk said...

john--does that mean Dunn still has options? WOOHOO!

at 3:31 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Offered $5 million to play for a World Series contender, but turned it down for $1 million for, at best, a 3rd place team in the Central.

Hey Fogg, you got some bad advise brother. Anyone else find it humorous that Lohse is still out there?

at 3:31 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone that is giving Fogg slack states because he pitched for the Rockies his stats are slightly inflated. Last time I checked, Colorado isn't the homerun happy place it used to be. In fact I think it compares similarly to GAPB.

at 3:32 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Fogg will be pitching in a wide open stadium in Cincinnati, a haven for humidity.

at 3:35 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

is the automatic posting system up? seems like it...

at 3:40 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

I sit corrected on EZ not being on the Bats roster. Glad he is getting a shot at Texas. But I stick by my statement that Louisville could have an incredible pitching staff. Thanks to Anonymous at 3:02 pm for making my point. Don't forget Jim Brower & Mike Lincoln.

at 3:43 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Automatic posting is up.

Be good or it will go back the old system.

at 3:45 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

John..What number is Fogg?

at 3:47 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Be good or it will go back the old system.

I like it. But as a compromise there shouldn't be Anonymous. (said the anonymous poster) :-)

at 3:54 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Doesn't have one yet. Aren't a lot of good ones to go around. 63 guys in camp. 1, 5, 8, 10, 13, 18, 20, 24 and 42 are retired.

They don't give out 11 or 14.

Wilson's 33 is open for now.

at 3:56 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

1mil /1 yr. Possible 10 wins
as 5th starter. If the young guns do well, whats to say we can't trade him to someone else for more?

Win win if you ask me.

Reds fan in Tennessee.

at 3:56 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

Did Jay Bruce ask for #32?

at 4:05 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This guy absolutely stinks. This signing is typical of the OLD REDS regime, trying to sell his experience when there is no point in even looking past his stats. He's just as run of the mill as Lohse and some other hacks they have signed. If he takes ANY innings away from a young starter getting some valuable experience this season, then it's an even worse move!

at 4:05 PM Blogger Snake said...

Whoever said what's the difference between Blanton and Fogg. Blanton 14-10, 3.95 ERA, 230 IP, 140 K, 40 BB, .122 WHIP, .269 OBA. Fogg 10-9, 4.94 ERA, 165 IP, 94 K, 59 BB, 1.55 WHIP, and .293 OBA. There is a lot of difference. I really don't like what the Reds are doing at all. I think they need to give the young kids a shot and then if make moves in-season if necessary. I think right now they are damaging confidence levels and questioning soem of these kids' ability. I like competition but if you can't get 2 out of Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Maloney and Affeldt you have problems. I think if you can't find a CF out of Hopper, Freel and Bruce you have problems. I just think these late moves show a lack of confidence in the young guns. If they were going to make moves olike Fogg and possibly Lofton it should have been done a lot earlier. If some of these guys don't make the roster, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't ask for a trade. You aren't going to send Freel or Hopper down, and I think if you send Bailey down you might as well have pulled the trigger on the Bedard trade. I have been a Reds fan forever but I really don't like the lack of movement before Spring training and I don't like what they are doing or talk about doing.

at 4:06 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good Lohse wasn't a hack, bad Lohse was. The problem was you couldn't count on which one was showing up that day.

at 4:11 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

Are You Kidding Me,You Would Trade The Future For Blanton,Instead Of Paying Fogg 1Mill?? And Your Comparing ERA's When you GOTTA Give Atleast A Pitcher 1 Run Pitching In Colorado? Its A Great Deal For 1yr,the guy got 10 wins in a ballpark where the ball can be a pop up and go out,he has last year playoff history,you all have seen the Market lately,add all that up and add him as a Insurance Policy in case the Young Guns can handle the Workload and save the Future Arms from being traded away..1 million is a Steal..Think About It

Bill from Dayton

Bill, I am sure you're a nice guy, but trading away one of our top prospects for a good pitcher we would have the chance on signing long term without a large paycheck, IS NOT trading away our future! The Reds aren't going to trade 2 of our top prospects for him...just not gonna happen!

I don't understand your reasoning about padding a guy's numbers at Colorado when comparing that to putting him in GABP...it doesn't make any sense. GABP for at least the last 4 years has had more homeruns hit in it than any other ball park! If Josh Fogg pitched crappy at Colorado, he will pitch just as crappy (if not worse) in a HUMID GABP.

$1 million is not a bad deal for Fogg...but he shouldn't take away innings from the younger guys, because he's not any better.

at 4:24 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys, this move is much better than Blanton (who you can't just list stats for b/c he was in a pitchers park last year) to compensate, lets look at both Fogg and Blanton's away stats, that should be a much better compairison. Blanton: 5.11 ERA, 119 IP .337 OBP. Fogg: 4.15 ERA, 93.1 IP, 351 OPB. Big difference there. Plus Blanton we would have to trade our youngsters, Fogg takes only 1 mill. This is a no brainer

at 4:25 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

He is below average at whatever price. Why not take a chance on a guy with talent that has been hurt. Like Carpenter

at 4:28 PM Blogger robby said...

Faint praise if the only thing positive to say about the move is that Fogg only cost a million dollars. He is a medicore pitcher coming to the most hitter friendly stadium in baseball. Nothing to get overly excited about, nothing to get overly upset about. Just a typical Red signing. The team most likey did not get better with this move. As pointed out in an earlier post isn't it incredible how far Homer Bailey has fallen? This time last year he was projected as a top of the rotation pitcher. I don't hear that from anyone anymore.

at 4:29 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

As many people have said, you can't go wrong for $1 million. Also, I have never seen Cueto, Volquez, or Maloney throw a pitch, so I (like most others on here) have no way of predicting that they can reliably pitch in the big leagues at this point. And from what I saw of Homer last year, I wouldn't be ready to bet that he can be a winner this year.

Fogg went 10-9 last year, in spite of giving up lots of hits and runs. Some guys have a knack for going out and giving you a chance to win, and if you're 5th starter can do that, you're in good shape.

at 4:41 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

fogg has a 60-60 lifetime record

at 4:41 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

and an era approaching 5

at 4:49 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

i do like his name..pretty cool

at 4:56 PM Anonymous Mitchell in KY said...

Run of the mill pitchers make 5 million per year anymore. Signing Fogg for 1 million is a good deal.

So if GABP and Coors are similiar expect similiar or just slightly worse numbers from Fogg. Oakland deflates Blantons ERA so you would expect a greater increase in his numbers at GABP

at 4:57 PM Anonymous seantron said...

Hamilton, not Wilson was most recently 33.

I like that this is a cheap signing, but I think that we won't get any more wins out of Fogg than we would get from one of the young guys.

at 5:07 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

No proven left handers in the rotation,yet another Right hander from the top tier of the scrap heap.

Yea,the guy can pitch so it's not a bad move but he really is just an average pitcher at best.I would love to be proven wrong though by a break out season or a "Career year". I've watched Fogg alot out in Colorado & I really think this past season was a big step up for his career.He was a big reason the team went on that late season run down the stretch & he pitched lights out baseball all the way through the NLDS & NLCS.So yes, some veteran qualities there could be helpful to the reds & at the price it really can't be beat.It add's competion to the pool making guys better & if worse comes to worse,he can be moved to the bullpen.

The one thing I do not understand is why he would come play for the red's for 1 million & not return to the rockies for 5 million.I mean that's MLB N.L championship team last season.Rockies are young,talented, & I expect to see them contend again this season.

at 5:12 PM Anonymous Mitchell in KY said...

When he (Fogg) turned down their (Rockies) offer they filled out their roster with other alternatives.

at 5:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

FOGG and AFFELDT are better than LOHSE and MILTON Enough said.

Besides, to round out the last 3 spots with the young guns is basically accepting the possibility of TANKING this season. That is a slap in the face to guys like BAKER, GRIFFEY, and HATTEBERG. Like these young kids are more important than feilding a team of MAJOR LEAGERS.


One at a time, sure, but NOT 3/5 of you rotation. -Kevin in Ft Myers, FL (via Ft Wright, KY)

at 5:27 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

a couple of years ago, signing Fogg would have put him at the top of our rotation. It speaks volumes for where our rotation currently stands that he's going to be competing for the 4-5 spots.

We've come a long way since the days of Elmer Dessens and Jimmy Haynes.

at 5:41 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

he must have chris sabo's agent

at 5:41 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Kevin in Ft Myers, you have to have guys with experience if you at least want to contend for the NL Central, which shoul ALWAYS be the lowest goal you set for the season. I think the best ONE of Bailey / Cueto / Volquez, etc. goes north, and Belilse, Fogg and Affeldt compete for the other 2 spots.

at 5:42 PM Anonymous mgarner543 said...

I like the Josh Fogg signing. Cuerto and Maloney both will be going to AAA to start the year and gain more seasoning since neither has much experience at that level. So now you have Bailey, Belisle, Affeldt, Volquez, and Fogg in the mix for the last three spots with the losers (Volquez and Affeldt in my opinion) going to strenghten the bullpen. Fogg gives us someone to occupy the rotation for one year until Cuerto and Maloney get some seasoning. Fogg might even build on his strong run at the end of last year and have his best season to date (and we can ship him at the deadline like we did with Loshe). Plus a one year deal for one million is a lot better than giving up at least two of the top prospects for Blanton (who can't pitch outside of Oakland).

Starting Rotation: Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Fogg, Belisle

Bullpen: Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Affeldt, Volquez, Sauerbeck, and maybe Valenzuela

at 5:49 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:27 Dessens has better numbers than Fogg in some important areas.Just so you're clear on what the Reds just bought.

at 5:56 PM Anonymous NVreds said...

you talk to the pessimists on here and they would tell you two things:

We wont win with rookies in our rotation and the youth isnt ready
trading for blanton is not a good move because they are asking for too much.

So that means that this is the best possible move considering the situation. 60-60 lifetime yes, but there are pitchers out there that would give anything to be .500 for their careers, getting double digit wins isnt easy and this guys done it 5 times. thats 5 times more than the other guys competing for the rotation....

$1mil and we can trade him when the youth is ready!! what is so wrong with this what do you want the reds to do!!! tell me what they should do please all your looking for is every negative aspect of everything. You got a better idea? I'm all ears

at 6:06 PM Anonymous NVreds said...

How many guys in our rotation got double-digit wins? thats the stat you all should look at

at 6:08 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

NV Reds

Just because we disagree with your flowering and gushing predictions do not make us bad people..I would suggest to you were are realists rather than pessimists. I mean dude where have ya been the last 7 years?

I hope the team improves to .500 this would be quite an accomplishment

I think when you keep running players through here like WK has done the last two years ..you can cause many problems with chemistry and cohesiveness that will kill ya in the long run

at 6:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

jack in ba:

you seem to be saying that the fact that fogg is 60-60 for his career is a negative, yet you say that it would be a big accomplishment for this team to make it to .500

if we can sign a guy for $1 million to compete for the 5th starter spot, and he's a .500 pitcher, how can that not be a great thing?

at 6:17 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

6:13 anon signing a .500 pitcher does not equate with a getting a team to .500


I think when you keep running players through here like WK has done the last two years ..you can cause many problems with chemistry and cohesiveness that will kill ya in the long run

at 6:22 PM Blogger Hugh D. Pohl said...

Fogg blew it by not signing with Colorado and now they are set and have most likely rescinded their offer. We are lucky to get him for $1 million. It's a great move with virtually no risk. Yes, he is average but he has value (witness his great performance in last year's stretch drive. If the youngsters perform, they'll be in the rotation anyway and he adds insurance both against failure of one or more of them and against temptation to overuse one of them for lack of alternatives. He is not being relied upon for a maajor role. What's not to like?

at 6:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack in BA,

Chemistry? Cohesiveness? The early 2000's teams of Griffey, Dunn, Kearns, Casey, Graves, etc. had GREAT Chemistry. Didnt WIN much though. Krivskey has at least made one thing clear, this is big boy baseball, and if you cant get it done, well get someone who can. Its starting to feel like a REAL orginization, NOT an entertainment company. I'm sure once we get a group thats winning the division regularly and competing for championships, He'll leave it alone.
-Kevin in Ft Myers.

at 6:23 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

by the way I am neither upset nor excited by this signing..I just dont think we needed to spend one million dollars to get somewhere most likely we could have gotten to without spending the bucks.

again I like the name Josh Fogg

at 6:23 PM Anonymous PresidentJohnAllenJr. said...

John, are the Reds still after Blanton? How about Milton on a minor league contract.
The team is getting better but the cuts are going to be tough is more players are added. Maybe the Reds can trade four for one.
Any comments?

at 6:26 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

John -- I bet you like dealing with Fogg. He is an absolute riot -- a very funny guy. I've enjoyed watching him here in Denver the past few years.

Definitely an understatement that the free agent market was not what he was expecting. Conventional wisdom out here was that he was looking at a 2-3 year deal at $6M or $7M annually. Which explains why he turned down the $5M offer from Colorado.

A great clubhouse guy for the Reds, and a real bargain at $1M.

at 6:27 PM Anonymous PresidentJohnAllenJr. said...

Sorry John, I meant if the Reds did add more players, the cuts are going to be tough.
Thanks for the automatic response

at 6:27 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

anon 6:23 we have not played a single game..as it stands now we finished at 72 and 90

I dont know what" Real Organization" you are feeling..we have not even played a single spring training game dude

I cant compete with you telling me that we are gonna win on a regular basis etc. But thats like me saying the Bengals are gonna start winning their division every year

Talks cheaper than water

at 6:33 PM Anonymous NVreds said...

jack - "I think when you keep running players through here like WK has done the last two years ..you can cause many problems with chemistry and cohesiveness that will kill ya in the long run"
this statement does not make any sense its a lot better to get a look at a lot of people rather than limit to the garbage our farm system has produced in recent history. I'm glad that has changed somewhat, but if you can find a phillips/keppinger then I 100% agree with it. this hurts chemistry? seriously?

I'm not "flowering" about our chances, this isnt a move that will put us in the playoffs, but it improves the team thats all I ask at this point, thats all you can ask at this point. I never commented on how the reds were going to do, I have "cautious" optimism and think the reds finish 3rd/2nd maybe 4th (.500 would be that).

$1mil for a guy whos won double-digits 5 times? thats a freakin steal. again how many guys won double digits for us last yr? what do want the organizaion to do, just roll over and die so your right? I know you dont want that.

you can have your opinion about how the team will do, I'm not disagreeing with that, but saying this is a bad move just to say it isnt realistic, its pessimistic. maybe this isnt a good move, but I can tell you this - >>This is NOT a bad move<<

at 6:35 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack, I just mean a real orginization that feels that its NOT "good enough" to have decent attendance and Griffey climbing the homerun list. As far as wining the division regularly, isnt that the idea? You act like that is so far fetched. This year? No, but before too long YES. This is when Krivskey will leave it alone. Besides, winning generates chemistry. 3rd rate players with chemistry does NOT generate winning. -Kevin in Ft Myers

at 6:41 PM Blogger John Fay said...

I doubt that they're pursuing Blanton. And I cannot see them bringing back Milton. The young guys will be ready before he's healthy.

at 6:46 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

Nv Reds.. you are entitled to you opinion..as I am mine again..do u even read my posts ?

here NV

Jack in Blue Ash said...

by the way I am neither upset nor excited by this signing..I just dont think we needed to spend one million dollars to get somewhere most likely we could have gotten to without spending the bucks.

again I like the name Josh Fogg

6:23 PM

anon..they have had a losing record the past 7 years and quite frankly the past 15 years has been pretty crappy.. I settle for one winning season then get excited.

Again, we have not yet played a single game..even in spring training and you act like we have turned a corner. I respectfully disagree dude

at 6:50 PM Blogger liz said...

John, I know why the Reds don't give out #14 -- but who wore #11 that they don't give that number out? Thanks!

at 6:50 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Low risk acquisition. $1 million for a veteran pitcher with 10 wins in each of the past few seasons and didn't have to give up any of the young prospects in the process.

at 6:50 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack, I think you are missunderstanding me, the team has clearly not turned the corner, the FRONT OFFICE has. Thats the orginization that feels real. -K in FTM

at 6:53 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

anon heres a good analogy

I am sure you work. You are not going to get a raise in most orgnizations until you show results

You can tell your boss that you are gonna do this or gonna do that.. yet ..you still aint getting a raise until you show outcomes.

and I do understand your feelings about the front office..but that is a matter of your perception that you feel they are better

how do you know this?..if the front office is better we will see the results on the field this year
and thats where I stand,,let the team show me

if you expect me to be gushing excited over some minor moves or spring training, I am sorry I dont share your enthusiasm..But I am still a fan

at 6:53 PM Anonymous Bigsteelerfan2 said...

The last I heard of Don Gullett was that he still resides in South Shore KY out of baseball.

at 6:56 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I'm sick and tired of all the whining about not acquiring Haren, Bedard, or Blanton.

Haren - Arizona gave the farm to get him. I don't trust Billy Beane and his 2nd half last year could be a precursor of things to come (see: Mark Mulder).

Bedard - Electric stuff, but unsure about his health and mostl likely would've been too expensive to sign long term.

Blanton - Votto and Bailey for this guy? Are you kidding me? Played in a pitcher friendly park and, again, the Billy Beane factor.

No harm in signing a veteran like Fogg for cheap for a 1 year. Insurance is always a good plan.

at 6:57 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The last I heard of Don Gullett he was still living in South Shore KY.

at 7:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack, we have that in common (FAN)
I dont see how hiring Dusty Baker, signing Cordero, and locking up Harang, Arroyo, and Philips long term are minor moves. Under the old regime, Baker and Cordero would NEVER be REDS and 2 of the other 3 would be traded. -K in FTM

at 7:01 PM Blogger Bengal43 said...

Liz..#11 was Barry Larkin.

at 7:01 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Chemistry? These are pro athletes that play baseball. Not the most team-oriented sport. If Coffey is blowing a lead, it's HIM blowing that lead, not the team.

at 7:04 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

NV Red or any new people here, do yourself a favor and either read Jack In BA post and don't respond or skip it completely.

He is not a "realist". He's trying to bait people into arguments to get his jollies. Plus we think he post under a few names!

at 7:07 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is anyone concerned about a guy who must have misgivings about passing on 5 millions dollars? I hope it works out well for Fogg and the Reds, but it might be an attitude disaster if it doesn't.

at 7:10 PM Anonymous mgarner543 said...

are you kidding me, this is a team sport. if coffey is blowing a lead, it might be because edwin booted a ball or dunn jogged over for a ball in the gap that he could have cut off and held to a single, but because he is lazy, it rolls to the wall for a double or triple. sure coffey had a bad year, but you cant always blame the pitcher blowing a lead entirely on him. last time i checked, baseball was still a team sport and professionals should have the integrity to hustle on defense. hopefully dusty whips them into shape.

at 7:14 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Jack, in the great history of sports, there has never been a team--never--that won a championship because of team chemistry. It always, always comes down to talent, and sometimes a little luck along the way.

But never chemistry.

That rant of yours on this subject is old and tired. If you want to believe in the high schoolish myth of team chemistry, consider that since free agency and player movement it's pretty much dead.

Money will always, always trump chemistry when it comes to a player.

at 7:15 PM Blogger Fred Davies said...

RAMIREZ: The Reds do have a Ramirez on the 40 man roster. Ramon Ramirez has been with the Reds, but under the radar. He was shut down with arm trouble two yrs ago while at Sarasota.Last yr he began the season at Sarasota, soon promoted to Chattanooga,and on to Louisville. He was 11-3, with a 3.70era combined. He started 14 games and relieved in 22. He throws hard, with good control. He threw live bp today and looked free and EZ..watch him!!! fkd-sarasota

at 7:25 PM Anonymous redsfanwoodu said...

Heard Fogg on with Paul Daughtery this evening. Fogg said there was never an official offer from the Rockies.

at 7:26 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

Mr. Redlegs. I beg to differ. My high school chemistry class could really pick it with a mortor and pestal, move the beakers along with a great pivot and were able to handle the test tubes around the bunson burner without errors.

They just couldn't hit

at 7:30 PM Blogger AReds83 said...

Does anybody else wonder how Matt Maloney ever made it into the conversation with Bailey, Cueto, etc.? We're talking about a guy that was traded for Kyle Lohse. Kyle Lohse. Last I checked he was still a free agent. Somebody threw him into the conversation with the other prospect pitchers and now his name comes up automatically after Bailey, Cueto, and Volquez. Remember Phil Dumatrait? People were begging for him to be brought up. The Reds did. Now he's a Pirate. It seems like every year we have some young pitcher everyone is sure will be at worst a solid starter (Acevedo, Claussen, Williams). Maloney could be great. I hope he is. All I know is that I've never seen him pitch, and I'm sure many of you haven't either. None of our young pitchers are a sure thing, and Maloney just reminds me of guys we've seen before. So lets wait and see before we plan out our rotation for the next ten years.

at 7:54 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys will complain about anything. Why cant we just sit back and let things pan out. If you guys agree with the move then dont go to the games

at 7:55 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

a mediocre/below avg pitcher signs with the reds, match made in heaven...75 wins or bust!!

at 7:56 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a great move because there is little downside, 1MIL in todays game is basically FREE. The guy is a career .500 pitcher for teams that were horrible for the most part (excluding last year). If we can get a 50% win rate from our 3rd and 4th starters and the top of the rotation a bullpen do the job they are paid to do then it will be a very good season for Reds fans.

at 8:02 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

at 8:06 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 8:02,

Very immature, funny..., but very immature.

-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 8:15 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

And to answer some other people about team chemistry,I completely disagree!!! Number 1, all sports w/ the exception of a few individual sports are built around the team.To say that team chemistry is not important is just silly. Mama always said "There are some people who just have a few nut's loose behind the operator's valve"!!!

Plus, when you look at the 04' bosox & the 07' rockies & bosox, try to tell me that team chemistry didn't play a part in those team's successful seasons,I would have to beg the differ.I do think , it's not the ONLY key ingredient to successful season's for certain teams,but plays a huge part.Not all people click & that's okay,as long as they get the job done.I play team sports in soccer,do I like all my teammates,NO!But do I respect them,HECK YA!! That build's team chemistry!!!Because the team is always 1st!!!

Pete Rose in his prison without walls book say's when he managed the red's he told players he didn't care if they liked each other,but when someone on your team(Even if you can't stand him) does the team right thing for the team,You better me the 1st up there to congratulate your teammate!!!

last time I checked MLB had a rule that there should be 9 players on a ballfield,not just one.This aint golf,it's baseball!!!!

at 8:21 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

No left hander in the rotation except JA & that's if he even crack's the starting rotation.Let's hope he doesn't win a spot out of default because he is the sole left hander vying for a spot in the rotation.The rotation just being RH pitchers concerns me.The need for a stud LH pitcher will come back and haunt this team.I can't believe this department is not being addressed with more urgency!!!If this team put's out a starting RH pitcher every night,you can say goodnight!!!

at 8:22 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

at 8:30 PM Blogger jdeezman said...

Team chemistry DOES matter, if you're not the most talented team.
The most talented team will beat the team with the best chemistry
99 out of 100 times.

at 8:54 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

Mr Redlegs

You mean like the yankees with a all that talent and a 200 million dollar payroll that have a problem winning their division?

or would u like to discuss the NYG the recent superbowl champs with great team chemistry that beat the very talented Patriots?

Redlegs you live 800 miles away..you have not been to a single game in many years, your long distance evaluation is absurd

at 8:57 PM Anonymous redfuture said...

I just watched Fogg pitch the 1st 3 innings of the Rockies/Dodgers archived game on MLB of 9/26/07. This was one of Fogg's best: 6 2/3 IP, 5H, 0R, 3BB, 5K and he won. Very, very mediocre stuff, mostly at 88mph, a few at 89 or 90 and very rarely at 91. This guy's talent doesn't even come close to MB, HB or EV whom I have watched plenty of also. The only way Fogg can upgrade the team is as the long man/spot starter. If they do that they've got something. Here is proper pitching alignment:
#1 - Harang
#2 - Arroyo
#3 - Belisle
#4 - Volquez
#5 - Bailey
Long & Spot Start...Fogg
Situational LH #3...Coutlangus
Situational LH #2...Mercker
Situational LH #1...Affeldt
Setup Man # 2.......Burton
Setup Man # 1.......Weathers
Closer Deluxe.......Cordero

Don't have to see Coffey no more and don't have to see Mejewski, Bray, or Stanton no more. Just as importantly we don't have to see Saarloos, Santos, Gosling, Stone, Cormier, Dumatrait, & Milton. A staff could have a pretty good ERA without those guys weighing it down!

at 8:57 PM Blogger Grizzlyfox said...

Who was the dominant LH starting pitcher on the Red Sox last year? It must have been hard for MLB to award the trophy to a team with no LH pitchers. Seriously, if this team doesn't do good next year you can say its cuz Bedard, Blanton, Cy Young, or Johan Santana weren't here. But you can't say its cuz they don't have a lefty in the rotation.

at 8:58 PM Blogger AReds83 said...

The whole lefty righty matchup thing is overrated. Good pitching is good pitching.

at 9:06 PM Anonymous Phillip Wright Lebanon, OH said...

I think this is an incredible deal for the Reds. How can this be bad? more competition for the young guys. I have always liked Josh Fogg.

at 9:14 PM Blogger jdeezman said...

Wow... I must bow down to the wisdom that is Jack in BA.

Of course you are sooooo much more knowledgeable than Mr. R, myself, or anyone else in the world.

How could the world do without your obviously mountainous intellect? Why aren't you Hillary's running mate?

Thank God you're here to set us all straight.
I'm sure your boys Cheviot SA and Angry in ________ (fill in the blank) are disciples!
Thanks for enlightening us all!!!

at 9:15 PM Anonymous wanderinredsfan said...

Again with the lefty hype!! Look all around the central and tell me that we need a lefty starter. Heck, the Brew-crew has only one lefty in the lineup! The Reds are the only team in the central that should scare a righty dependent staff. Right handed pitching will win this division.

at 9:17 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

redfuture, I agree about the talent, but... I'll take Fogg against Pujols, Derek Lee, Soriano, Prince Fielder, or Tejada over the course of the season. These young guys just dont have the stones or the experience to get these kinds of hitters out on a consistent basis.
I think Bailey definately should be in the rotation, but you just cant have a rotation thats 3/5 rookies. Its too volatile.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 9:19 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Grizz-I hear you there,but not having a stud LH just concerns me.We are not the Boston Red sox w/ a boat load of money to spend on FA stud RH pitchers or a farm system so deep, that they come out of the woodworks pitching no-hitters!!!

We're the Cincinnati Red's, a mediocore mid-market midwestern small city franchise,that has a hard time developing successful pitchers & attracting top tier free agent pitchers of either throwing arm.

Just the thought of watching pitchers struggle in GABP is not to far off from reality.The park is set up for hitters to succeed & for pitchers to fail.A different look day/night in & day/night out would make sense to me,just to shake things up.Make the other team's make ajustments,etc...

at 9:37 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

In June, from the 13th to the 29th we play the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Blue Jays, and Indians. Can you imagine that stretch with 3 rookies in 10 of the 15 games? Sounds like a 4 for 15 stretch to me. -Kevin in Ft Myers

at 9:37 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would everyone be happy if they just did nothing? Billy Beane is a thief, so stay away from Blanton! Pitchers get hurt so it will be nice to have our young guns getting ready in AAA when someone goes down.1yr 1 mil for Fogg is not bad! I was hoping they might take a chance on Freddy Garcia with a similar 1 year deal.

at 9:57 PM Anonymous redfuture said...

Kevin in Ft. Meyers. I applaud you on the tone of you exception to my rotation. You were very civil and I will look for your posts in the future. However, that rotation is not 3/5 rookies. Technically there is only 1 rookie but I can accept a 2nd, if you insist, as Volquez has already been up parts of the last 3 years. Belisle has already pitched in 126 games and started 37. As for Pujols he is 12 for 30 versus Fogg with 3 HRs, 13 RBI. Versus Belisle he is 3 for 12 with 1 HR, 4 RBI.

at 10:09 PM Blogger reaganspad said...

ARed83. Acevedo was rushed to the Major leagues and pitched because we did not have a Fogg on the Team. We did have Jimmy Haynes, Paul Wilson and Danny Graves Starting.

Acevedo had a decent arm, but our lack of Major Leagers had him pitching before he was fully developed. Glad to see that they will use AAA for what it is for. Getting these guys use to success so that you are not forced to the bigs like Belisle without being able to stretch.

I would also like to see our pitchers learn how to bunt

at 10:10 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wanna share somthing that really hasnt been discussed,its us as fans since we was kids thats gonna miss "rounding third heading for home",the thought that Junior & Dunn may not be with us next year.Things are changing on this team that look very bright for the fans of the future,lots of new ways,lots old faces leaving us,this team isnt your old reds anymore,its the new generation reds,I congrat new ownership building for the future,Im very excited about the coming years for this team and for my children to grow as I did with the reds...Thank You & God Bless

Bill from Dayton

at 10:16 PM Blogger AReds83 said...

I disagree that Acevedo was rushed to the major leagues. I remember hearing people with bold predictions that he would win 12-15 games his second year as a starter. He had some success (just like many of the pitchers I named). In the end though, guys are what they are, you're not going to fool batters very long. Ask Jimmy Haynes.

at 10:17 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Reds are a sub .500 club with a bunch of really lousy pitchers so Fogg, who pitched in the World Series last year (and won 2 playoff games), deserves a shot at winning a rotation spot.

He's better than Milton and Belisle! (though Belisle is younger and Fogg has had almost four times the number of decisions as Belisle).

Krivsky knows that Fogg doesn't play OF, right?

at 10:27 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...


Touchet! (sp?) I agree Belisle is not a rookie by definition, and his stats vs Pujols are a bit better, but I feel Fogg would be more consistant over 162 than any of the three young guys. In a given game Belisle or Bailey can be lights out, Fogg at best is lights dimmed low, but would deliver that reliably. Truth is your rtation is good, I would just switch Volquez for Fogg, just for the experience factor. Fortunately for us Dusty gets to make the choice. I guess well see in April whos insight was better. Maybe were both wrong!
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 10:33 PM Blogger Gene in WV said...

Couple quick comments.

First, the Fogg signing is a absolute no brainer. It is a total win/win for the Reds. There are batboys getting $1 million in the major league, and he did pitch very well coming down the stretch, has been adequate for a few years. Great move. If he does well, fine. If not, nothing lost.

Mr Redlegs,

I partically agree with you on the chemistry thing. In baseball, chemistry means very little, though it does help players get through a long season while practically living with eachother for 7 months. Still, chemistry will not help anyone hit a 98 MPH fastball, or throw a strike on the outiside corner, or even catch a tough ground ball.

However, I must say, in basketball, team chemistry means a lot. It can take a good team and make them a outstanding team. What others do makes a huge difference in basketball, as it relates to how well you can do what you do.

That being said, nothing wins like talent, even in basketball.

at 10:37 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

7pm anon ... you may consider
Baker a positive..I dont .... with Harang , Arroyo and Phillips..our record was what last year?

Regardless of all this preseason excitement Cordero was the only major offseason addition..hopefully he will help get this team to .500

gene nobody is discounting the importance of talent required in any sport..or required in any professional organization.. yet..if you dont have chemisrty and cohesiveness..ya got nothin

at 10:40 PM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

again take this recent Superbowl..New England had enough talent to field two football teams..the talent level at almost all positions was far greater than the NYGs

yet you saw how a gritty determined cohesive football team came together..and simply..they won

at 10:58 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Jack, you post as Cheviot Sports Authority and various anonymous phonies congratulating yourself on your own posts, and I can see that from my locale, so I'm fairly capable of judging the Reds from here and when I'm in the clubhouse at various parks.

You prove time and again that by living in Cincinnati and going to "30 games a year" you don't know what you're seeing. When I'm in the field and in the clubhouse even one time, I still gain more insight than you do because you get your information from people like me who write it for you.

Oh, another thing: Television has arrived! You should try. In color!

Teams, coaches and managers scout from TV every day. What do you think the "video coordinator" does? Babysit players? With 7-12 cameras at each game, there's not much anyone is missing.

The coordinator will make DVDs for the players to take home and study or watch in the clubhouse. Tony Gwynn used to watch his previous ABs from that very game or against a certain pitcher coming into the game while the game was still being played.

You don't have to be in the stadium to know what's going on. You just have to know what you're eyeballing. Obviously, you don't have the irretrievable right stuff. You're blind as three mice.

at 11:05 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack, Baker is head and shoulders better than Narron, Last seasons poor record is not because of Harang, Arroyo, or Philips. Harang finished 3rd for Cy Young, Phillips was 30/30 and Arroyo had at least 5 wins blown by the bull pen. These 3 guys, plus Cordero are the proven core of this franchise, without them we're the Royals or the Pirates. Dont be so hung up on last year or 7 to 15 years before. This team cant go back and win any of the games from the past 15 years so dont put the losses on them like its THEIR track record. ITS NOT. Fogg, Affeldt, Volquez, Cordero, Bruce and Votto. 2008 is a team thats 6 out of 25 DIFFERENT than last years team, but you want to hang last years 90 loss season around their necks. Its just unfortunate that you feel that way, it really must take the fun out of it for you.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 11:06 PM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Here's the thing about chemistry:

In most every locker room or clubhouse I've been in over 31 years, even teams with good chemistry still had their cliques. And the cliques could cause bigger problems for a winning team than bad chemistry does on bad teams.

I've seen championship teams ripped apart by cliques-cliques along racial lines, age lines, talent lines, coaching lines. I've teams ripped apart by jealousy, money, competition, favoritism, special treatment and, particularly, over women.

The 2004 Red Sox did not win the World Series because of chemistry. They won it because of talent. They had good chemistry in great part because they won.

The Giants didn't have great chemistry until they started winning. I cover the NFL. They were ready to throw Coughlin under a bus early in the year, and shove Manning with him.

Good chemistry can make in-house matters easier over the course of the season. But in the end, talent prevails.

at 11:53 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just to be clear, Im NOT picking the Reds to beat the Tigers in the series. But I think being happy with 500 is a losers mentality. That is the type of attitude Wayne / Dusty have to change in Cincy. Realisticly, I think the Cubs will win the division, and the wild card is NOT coming out of the central, so yes the Reds will miss the playoffs, but I am hoping / expecting 85 - 87 wins and would love to see the Reds scare the pants off of the Cub Fans the final month of the season.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 12:06 AM Blogger Stock said...

I agree that chemistry does matter in team sports. It is just not as important in Baseball as it is in other team sports. In basketball Stockton knew what Malone was going to do before he actually did it. It gave him an advantage. Based upon comments from Redleg in CO, Fogg may help team chemistry. One writer was concerned that Fogg could be a problem if sent to the pen. Not going to happen. He isn't a good enough pitcher to overcome a reputation as an attitude problem.

Have the Reds turned the corner? YES. A few years ago they had no minor league system. Now they have one of the two best. Thank you Mr. K. You have provided Reds fans with hope.

This is a great pickup. I agree that in spite of the difference in parks his potential is no where near that of Blanton. However, Blanton's potential is no where near that of Bailey. Better and cheaper to have Bailey and Fogg than Blanton.

The Reds now have 7 guys (Volquez, Bailey, Belisle, Cuerto, Fogg, Affeldt and Maloney) competing for 3 spots. 7 is better than 6. If Bailey, Belisle and Volquez shine this spring then Fogg and Affeldt will be cheap bullpen help who are capable of starting if one of the others gets injured.

Will the Reds win the division? I don't know but what I do know is that thanks to Krivsky I am looking forward to opening day far more than in any year since 2000.

at 12:10 AM Anonymous firefly118 said...

STUPID! I will take Scott Williamson back before I sign a guy like this. It just goes to show that the Reds are not as sold on the young guys as first reported, and they are still to cheap and gutless to go out and trade for a proven guy! Bedard NO, Harden NO, heck even Prior NO, we get lost in the FOGG, Ugh!

at 12:41 AM Blogger Hugh D. Pohl said...

I find it interesting that such a negative guy as Jack thinks chemistry is so important. If it is Jack, I don't see how you would generate it in any organization that you would be a part of. I think we all like the romantic notion of chemistry being a major factor but talent wills out, especially when you are dealing with world class competition. On the other hand BAD chemistry such as having a "clubhouse cancer" on a team can have a devastating effect. Good chemistry can help nudge a great team over the top but I agree with Mr. Redlegs on this one.

And once again, those of you who are actually upset about the Fogg signing, I just don't get it. As another veteran arm, insurance policy for young arms for only $1 million how could we go wrong?

at 1:49 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's insurance. And should Bailey or Cueto come up from Louisville mid-season Fogg has an easy contract to move.

at 2:44 AM OpenID LoBill83 said...

Think about this, 1 million is all he could get on the market. You guys ever heard of a "contract year" when an athlete feels dissed then goes out and has one helluva year? I love this signing. Fogg is a good not great pitcher. In order to get the great pitchers to come to town the Reds need to be winning. You do that with good pitchers.


Cordero, Bray (when healthy), Mercker, Weathers, Burton, Belisle, Valenzula (rule 5)

at 3:33 AM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

I stand by my comment's from earlier about team chemistry.Pete Rose summed it up for me.You may not like certain players but you better respect them,congratulate them, & play hard for them.9 players,one goal, to WIN THE GAME!!!!

Talent gets a player on the team & field.Without talent were not even having this conversation.There have been a variety of different team's in different arenas of sports that have succeeded without large margins of talent.Good team chemistry can make or break a team in any type of TEAM sports.I agree that talent gets you wins,but without talent the player doesn't even make the team.

at 7:53 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

Mr Redlegs..

For the past three months John Fay has been accepting posts and can tell you I am not Cheviot Sports etc.

Secondly..you are not a professional sports writer..you claimed to be such on both an MSN sports blog and our Bengals Board, it was found out you were not. You were removed from both boards for attacking others. You are a retired insurance salesman living near Washington DC if I remember correctly

Regarding team chemistry I dont agree with you..explain what happened in the last Superbowl. Tell us why the Yankees ..with all their talent and 200 million dollar payroll cant even win their divisoin

Pohl I am not a negative person, I just dont share your enthusiasm that this Reds team that went72-90 is somehow gonna miraculously win the division this year

As I have blogged repeatedly, I would hope they improve to.500 ..that would be quite an accomplishment

Being even keeled ,level headed, and realistic does not make a me a negative person Hugh

at 8:16 AM Blogger sidsux said...

Let's face facts, if the Reds were truly committed to winning the World Series in '08 they would have made the trade for Bedard.

at 8:17 AM Blogger sidsux said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

at 8:22 AM Anonymous J said...

Mr Pohl

at every single position..the new england patriots had better talent than the NYG what happened?

Ill write slow so u understand..

talent is important..in any type of organization . but if you dont have chemistry and cohesiveness..you are not going to be successful.. its not a romantic notion Pohl

at 8:45 AM Anonymous mikec said...

I'm not crazy about this signing because I think Josh Fogg is a waste of space. But for $1 million you get a veteran that (other than innings pitched) is on par with Livan Hernandez...

John, my only question is where does this leave the roster if one or two of the young guys make it. I mean they'd have to cut loose some vets like Stanton right?

If you figure 12 pitchers...
On the roster for sure:
Fogg (I assume you can't send him down and keep him in holding at AAA can you?)

That leaves four spots and the following competing, what happens to the losers?

Then there's nonroster guys like:

I figure Volquez and Bailey make the team either in the pen or the rotation right? Neither have anything more to prove at AAA. What if a Mercker or Cueto pitch their way onto the team? There are some hard choices to make here. I guess it is a good problem to have.

at 9:00 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Hahahah, Jack, you're a lousy chameleon. You change your identity and rants from thread to thread and day to day without camouflage.

At 7:53 a.m., you write:

Regarding team chemistry I dont agree with you..explain what happened in the last Superbowl. Tell us why the Yankees ..with all their talent and 200 million dollar payroll cant even win their divisoin.

Then, at 8:22 the mysterious yet stylistically and thematically identical "J" suddenly appears after a short absence:

talent is important..in any type of organization . but if you dont have chemistry and cohesiveness..you are not going to be successful.. its not a romantic notion Pohl.

Ah, the ol' double-dot punctuation, familiar syntax and slapping yourself on the back as a different poster routine. Question is: Where's your pals "Rod" and "Stan" and "CSA?"

What a piece-o-work.

at 9:06 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Jack, the day a retired insurance worker can write sports for a living is the day I actually do retire.

But that's the funniest one you've come up with yet. You keep changing your story. Nice. Sequels to the mundane. Intelligent people can read my posts and see that I'm really the telephone man.

Piece-o-work. Man.

at 9:13 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

The New York Giants won the Super Bowl because:

1.) They had a tremendous defensive game plan, which Strahan had warned all week, "we got surprises . . . we're gonna surprise you!"

2.) Manning somehow avoid being sacked three times on one make-or-break play, heaved a desperate, dying quail wobbler. . . .

3.) . . . that somehow avoided the reach of two defenders, hit Tyree blindly on the helmet as he was falling down.

Yessiree, chalk up chemistry because coaching, divine intervention and unadulterated luck had nothing to do with that stunning upset.

at 9:28 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...


The reds wouldnt win the series in 08 even if they signed SANTANA, They need BAILEY and CUETO or BELISLE to reach (and exceed) their potential, THEN sign a BEDARD type pitcher so that ARROYO becomes 5th starter (like w/ REDSOX). Then for VOTTO and BRUCE to meet their potential, and DUSTY to manage his butt off. THEN they MIGHT win a tittle.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 9:33 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know who originally said it, but...

"you win 54 and lose 54, no matter what you do...it's what you do in the other 54 that counts"

I really believe in that statement, and if you look at what the Reds have done to make this team better, you will see this can be a very good team record wise.

Volquez, Affeldt, Fogg and Cordero go a long way to winning 2/3 of that "other 54"...for those of you that are math challenged, that's 36/54 + 54 = 90..and that is enough to win this division.

That's not mentioning the potential of Bruce, who should, at the very least, replace Hamilton, a full year of Votto and Bailey and an up and coming Cueto...this team is poised to be a contender....

just sit back and enjoy it.

-Mike in Rochester, NY

at 9:42 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like that, no one ever wins less than 54 and no one ever loses less than 54, it makes sense, hopefully its not the guys you mentioned accounting for the 54 wins in that part of the equation. -K in FM

at 9:43 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe Mr. R has been unmasked! As much bs as he slings around no wonder he sold insurance. How many real sportswriters do you know that hang around on blogs ALL DAY

at 9:49 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...


you are this blog consistently 12 hours a day everyday telling everyone you are a sportswriter..thats what you do for a living

Did not the vastly superior New England Patriots lose to the less talented NYGs?

Again, why do the Yankees consistently fail to win their division with all their talent?

at 9:55 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Unmasked? Yep. As a person with comp time out the yang since I had 18 days off from July 18 to the third week of the playoffs. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

What's your excuse for multi-user trolling, Anon/Jack? Drawing off the government's generosity?

Lower my property taxes.


at 9:55 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...


The patriots were perhaps the most cohesive team in the history of sports, every interview sounded the same no matter which Patriot was being interviewed. And they had great chemistry, on defense Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau love each other, Offense, Brady, the O-line, Welker. Great chemistry. And they lost.

You act like the Patriots were a grease fire in the locker room and the Giants were in a state of unified zen. And thats why they won. Rediculous.

-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 9:59 AM Blogger Carlisle1974 said...

John - Do you see Mercker having anything left in the tank and making the trip up north?

at 10:03 AM Anonymous redsfanwoody said...

Go to C. Trents Blog at 1530homer.com and you will see Mr. Redlegs work. Then you can judge for yourself.

I don't think Trent would post just anybody's writings.

My two cents on team "chemistry". You can make strong cases for both sides of the argument. But it always seems the team that gets the hottest in the playoffs win. Chemistry or no chemistry.

at 10:06 AM Blogger John Fay said...

Mercker threw 91, 92 before he was hurt. He had good numbers from 2003 to '06. So I would not count him out.

I hope he makes it because he's may be the funniest guy I've ever covered.

at 10:08 AM Blogger jdeezman said...

No, the Patriots WEREN'T "vastly more talented" than the NY Giants.

The Pats were VASTLY more talented at WR and offensive play calling.

The Giants defense, in particular the D-line, was vastly more talented than the Pats O-line... and played like it on Super Bowl Sunday.

Whether I agree with Mr. Redlegs posts makes no difference about you being a negative CPOS. If nothing else Mr. Redlegs posts are WAY more informative and carry much more reasoning than you uber-negative diatribes that you and your "minions" seem to love.

The old bard said "He who doth protest too much" Jack... and you sure do protest a lot...

just saying...

at 10:08 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think what Jack is saying is: given 2 equal (or closely matched) teams, the team with good chemistry that play together will beat the team with bad chemistry. I can agree with that, but as far as the Reds are concerned, LETS GET TO BE THE EQUAL TEAM, then work on chemistry.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 10:11 AM Blogger jdeezman said...

Oh yeah Jack in BA/Cheviot/Dayton/whatever... the Yankees consistently lose their division because they aren't the most talented in their division... Boston is.

Anyone with at least half a brain knows that.

at 10:13 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen brother, get some guys in here that can play and let Dusty worry about the chemistry.

at 10:17 AM Blogger robby said...

Other than acquiring a closer, what have the Reds done to get better in the offseason? The team has no chance of contending in 2008. That is not a pessimistic view, it is a realistic look at the talent. A 500 season would be a great accomplishment.

On the other front talent trumps chemistry 9 times out of 10. If two teams are equally talented the one with better chemistry might win, but then again luck can have an even bigger impact.

at 10:20 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

The issue about the pitching isn't about Josh Fogg, per se, it's about where you get WINS after Harang and Arroyo?

If Harang can win 18-20 and Arroyo 14-16, you're still more than 55 wins shy. That means the remaining three starters somehow have to win at least 12 each, or keep you in the game long enough for the bats and bullpen to do something.

By anchoring down the No. 5 spot with someone who's pitched above the "No. 5 Starter" norm, that narrows your gap. If you're the manager and GM, do you realistically believe Belisle, Bailey and Volquez can make up 35 or so wins out of two and a half slots?

They have no track of doing that. That's why you're seeing some of the moves toward established pitchers. You know what they are. The Reds can only speculate on what the kids may or may not actually do.

It's a dicey game of checkers--play the kids no matter what or take a proven quantity--if you want to go for the division.

at 10:21 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to see a comparison, look at the numbers of Braden Looper....supposedly the Cardinals number 2 starter. They're very similar.

One thing that somebody mentioned on an earlier post....they said that Walt Jocketty helped build the Cardinals championship teams through free agent signings. I challenge anyone to name even ONE major free agent that the Cardinals signed under Jocketty. He built the team by trading his young talent for more experienced players.....like Edmonds, McGwire, Rolen, Mulder. He got lucky with the signing of Carpenter.

at 10:32 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Baker, Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Bailey, Fogg, Affeldt, Cordero, replace Narron, Hamilton, Milton, Lohse, Ramierez, Guardado. All upgrades from last year. I do realize these guys are a big "IF", but them not performing is the same big "IF". I beleive the talent IS better. 500 is just "not failing" not a goal. I just hope the team doesnt feel the same as Robby, if they do, itll be another long summer in Cincy.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 10:45 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

Mr Redlegs

It is an honor to post on this blog.. conversely, our banter is upsetting many and after this post I will not respond to your lunacy or that of Jdeezman..you both having the same IPs by the way..interesting

In fact, you used the same nick (Mr.Redlegs) on msn sports blog, you claimed to be a baseball writer.

On our Bengals blog, you used the nick Mr Football, you claimed to be a professional football writer

The moderator on the Bengals blog said the IPs were the same on both individuals. Inevitably you were banned from both blogs

I doubt very seriously a professional writer would or could be on a blog 12 hours a day like you have been for months.

Two months ago, when someone else questioned you about hours spent on this blog you told us you were a freelancer, that you workerd for yourself

Now you tell us your organization gave you "comp time" off.

I think you are having a problem keeping track of all your stories

Minimally..you are some dude that lives 800 miles away and aside from seeing the Reds on Tv , you have absolutely no feel or flavor for this team or organization. You have not been to a game here in decades. To debate you further is an excercise in futility

Redsfanwoody..anyone can post with Trent

at 10:50 AM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

Listen. Josh Fogg for 1 million is a no-lose situation. For all the people saying he's blocking the young guns or stunting their growth--you are mistaken. Even if 2 of the young starters work out, there is no way they can handle a 200 inning workload over the long haul of the season. Young arms WILL get tired, just look at the past. Even last year, Lincecum for San Fran was unbelieveable, until he got to about 140 innings, and he started to tire. The Giants replaced him with another guy(someone probably inferior to Fogg) and now Lincecum is rested and ready to go this season. To ask for 200 innings out of Bailey or Volquez is preposterous. You need lots of arms for the rotation. Nobody is blocking anybody or hurting anybody. Got it? Good.

at 10:55 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good post Bob.
-K in FM

at 10:59 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack and Redleggs sittn in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g.

at 11:01 AM Blogger jdeezman said...

Jack in BA...

I live in Virginia Beach, as it's eaasy to see if you looked at my profile.
I notice you did an IP check, sad.

I've heard the rumors of Mr. R being a writer... but who cares?

I don't.

All I know is that he makes a helluva lot more sense than you do... even when he doesn't even post!

You and your ilk are all gloom and doom. posting onm a blog is not an honor, it is the "medium of the minute" in todays world.

For you too call anyones writing lunacy is the poster child of the pot calling the kettle black.

Try making some sense once in a while... it might help.

Robby... we have no realistic shot at the World Series this year as far as I'm concerned... but you never know!
If we are hoping that lady luck smiles on us, wee need to catch lightning in a bottle in relation to our pitching staff.
What better way to try to do that than brining in arms for this year, without trading away the farm system that will make us perrenial contenders in the future?

at 11:02 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

regarding this talent vs chemistry issue.. somewhere the message was lost.

You have to have both

at 11:06 AM Anonymous J-Diggety said...

hey Jack!
I think YOU are Mr Redlegs!!!
nah, really i don't like either one of ya!

at 11:06 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

jdeezman you were telling us in September.. that you played golf with all the Reds and Bengals at the Kenwood country Club on a regular basis

Can I borrow your private jet.

They same holds true for you . It is an honor to be able to post on this blog and I think its best we limit our interactions

at 11:08 AM Anonymous Jack in Blue Ash said...

hey J Digs good morning to ya

gotta go check on the gang and pretend to work a little today

I dont like me either Diggs LOL

have a good am

at 11:15 AM Blogger jdeezman said...

Jack in BA... you are a bald faced liar.

I've never said I played golf with anyone... let alone the Reds or Bengals players. If you want to get into a pissing contest, try doing it with someone that you have a chance with.

You are WAYYYYYY out of your league here son.

I've not been able to play golf of any sort since 2002, the year I became a disabled veteran.

I think it's best that you limit YOUR interactions to things which you have a clue about.

Pathological Liars Anonymous surely has a blog or website somewhere...

at 11:24 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The more I think about this pitching issue I just worry that the Reds will never have 5 real starters. Bronson has mentioned a 4 man rotation before, which with a big trade or signing of another Harang type guy could make for a solid 4. (With Bailey) This of course requires a rock solid bull pen as the starters would go max 7innings / 90 pitches and NEVER pitch a CG. (until you get to a World Series)Our young guns in the pen would give us that. Anybody smarter than me think this idea sucks?
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 11:31 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or, if the young guns are good enough, use Bronson as a set up man, he is notoriously much less effective the third and fourth time through a lineup.
-K in FM

at 11:37 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...


at 11:42 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Jack/CSA/Anons/Willard/Timmy, etc. . . . that's really pathetic. Really sad. Really tells us something about you when time and again on these blogs for Cincinnati sports you are proven to be a multi-user blogger and phonier than the $6 bill.

If you could really see IP addresses you know that Deez and I are not the same one. But hey, don't let the facts get inthe way of a good rant and yellow lie. I've worked in sports interactive media for 10 years. I know the technical side with some fluency.

I've never been on MSN's boards once. Never. But if you wanna believe that, fine by me. You're the one with a proven record here of falsehoods, multiple IDs and cancerous trolling. The guess here is you're the one who's been banned by IP address, and it's quickly becoming evident that needs to be done here.

Oh, btw:

Jack at 11:08: "gotta go check on the gang and pretend to work a little today"

Jack at 11:16 on another thread: "John this is a blog and a debate ..dont take adverse opinion to heart."

--30-- this issue.

at 11:45 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

2 lets say.. CARPENTER or equivalent


Not bad (If it works)
-Kevin in FM

at 11:50 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...



at 11:50 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack, nice work insulting a disabled Veteran. Whats next? Heckling 9/11 rescue workers?

DEEZ, thank you for your service, you make us proud!

at 11:57 AM Blogger reaganspad said...

Jack is not negative, just ask Mr. Redlegs who he loves to NEGATIVELY trash.

Continuing to focus on the 72-90 record of 07 is negative. The manager was already fired for that perfomance.

If Dusty goes 72-90 with this team, he will be fired.

This team in 06 was a 500 team. The second half of 07 they were a winning team.

Dusty was not hired to get "back" to 500

We all know that pitching in 07 versus 06 was the story. As funny as this sounds, the team misses Jason LaRue more than his 194 batting average shows.

With he and Ross, they were 1/2 run better than 07
Why are we looking for a "3rd" catcher? Because we only have one today. Ross

at 11:57 AM Blogger Hugh D. Pohl said...

Wow! Unfortunately it's getting way too nasty on here.

I don't know Mr. Redlegs' identity or occupation but I find him to be knowledgeable, interesting and entertaining, a little irrascable at times but that's part of his personna.

Jack, I don't know where you get that I think the Reds will win the division etc. If I am not mistaken, John posed a question awhile back about our predictions for the year and we both said 3rd place. As a fan I am an optimist and do see some bright spots and improvements that MAY lead to a higher finish. I prefer sharing perceptions and debating actual issues to constant carping and negativism. I don't think all that makes me unrealistic or in denial.

And thanks to Reaganspad, Kevin in Ft. Myers and Gene in WV for adding some clear-eyed sanity and honest debate to this blog.

at 12:02 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

reganspad, good post, if we need a third catcher sign PIAZZA, great bat off the bench and could mentor Ross. Depth chart:

(Player coach type deal for not a whole lot of money)

-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 12:06 PM Blogger jdeezman said...

reaganspad, I have to disagree somewhat with your post... we only really have 1/2 a catcher if Ross can't hit!

I think that picking up a real catcher would be huge for this team, but I just don't see where that is going to happen. I keep praying that Ross shows us that last year was as bad as it will get and he wakes up... but so far it's just a dream.

To anon @ 11:50, you're welcome and it was my honor to serve this country.

One last thing to Jack in BA... it's extremely easy to go back and check the achives of the blogs. My proof is there for the world to see.

You are a lying CPOS.

CPOS is one of my favorite US Navy acronyms, it means Confirmed Piece Of S***.

at 12:11 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

All this talk of good young pitchers, but remember, a good catcher can make good pitchers great. Piazza to mentor Ross would be a good idea. Probably wont happen though as Piazza really doesnt catch anymore. BUT!If he is the third catcher he may not have to, other than bull pen stuff. Plus could add to his HR #s in pinch hit situations. (GABP)
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 12:11 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Piazzi is a worse defensive catcher than Valentin. We have other good bats on the bench, let Valentin catch or ge get a defensive catcher who can at least put his bat on the ball.
Mackanin did have that right. Don't need a starting catcher who can't hit his weight. Ross is a good back-up period.

at 12:22 PM Blogger Cheviot Sports Authority said...

LMAO: Nice to hear from you too, Mr Redlegs. I always look forward to you 'taking charge' and setting things straight.
CSA aka Jack, Timmy, Tommy, Anonymous, Richard, Lewis, Ken, Jon Fay, bengal, chris, et al.

at 12:23 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Valentin couldnt throw me out stealing second and doesnt handle the pitchers the way Ross does. At this point Ill trade hitting for calling a good game and an arm that keeps Soriano and others @ first base. Valentin off the bench is great, but catching everyday will hold back our young pitchers development. Johnny Bench isnt walking through that door and we'll never sign a top teir catcher(and pitching too). We should cultivate what weve got.
-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 12:25 PM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

Kevin-I'm not saying I'm smarter than you, and I appreciate your non-negative postings and general inquisitiveness, but the 4 man rotation is and has been dead for quite sometime. I too often wonder how the old-timers used to do it-starting 60 games, pitching 30 complete games-in one season!! It is odd how present-day pitchers can't even approach those numbers, but that is MLB today. There used to be hardly any bullpens and zero closers, and now that has obviously changed. The 4 man rotation would just wear the starters down too fast, especially since they are used to their specific rest schedules. The fifth starter is more of an innings eater, mediocre type of pitcher anyway, so it would make sense to exclude them, it just can't be done. Oh, and Piazza is perhaps the worst fielding and throwing catcher in MLB history, so I don't think he'd be any use to the Reds. He's a DH now and he can't even stay healthy just doing that.

at 12:26 PM Anonymous cheviot sports authority said...

jdeezman said...

You don't know what your are talking about you CPOS, I met Girardi at the Kenwood Country club last week,I play there all the time with both players from the Bengals and Reds..he dont want to come here..he was visiting a relative

sept 2007

at 12:32 PM Blogger jdeezman said...

Nice try anon liar @ 12:26... LOL!

You're a sad and pathetic little person. God Bless you and be very happy that you have a keyboard to hide behind.

Real life doesn't have keyboards and if you had to look a person in the eye when you tell a lie, you'd get treated much differently.

Back to baseball... who is the best catcher in our farm system?

at 12:33 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ross can field and throw, Piazza wouldnt be for that, more for advice calling games and how to handle the better hitters in the division and with Ross' hitting. ....And maybe 15 pinch hit home runs and 40 rbi's would be nice too.-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 12:36 PM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

I think the kid we drafted last year is our best catcher, unfortunately. Hopefully Ross pulls his head out of his you know what. He's actually a decent fielding and throwing catcher, he just can't flirt with the Mendoza line like he did last year. Wow he sucked. Still shows some pop though. Still, whatever his BA was last year is unacceptable.

at 12:41 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Piazza can "DH" in the NL. In almost every game you have the pitchers spot in the line up in the inning you take him out. Its just one at bat, but could be upwards of 100 at bats for a guy like PIAZZA. 100 at bats, 15 home runs, at GABP, I could see that.

at 12:42 PM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

What you're saying about Piazza makes sense Kevin. He has to know how to catch by now(even if he can't actually do it) and he would definitely be more successfull in GABP than he was in Oakland last year. We need another right-handed bat or two. I just don't really think Piazza has much left in the tank and he could get injured if one of us accidentally farted. Oops. Just did. Sorry Mike!!

at 12:44 PM Anonymous Mitchell in Kentucky said...

My other two cents on our catchers, we have neither.Next year we will

deezman give it a rest now..go to the VA, get your medicine, and therapy for your stumps.You act nuttier than my grannys fruitcake

at 12:44 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 12:47 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL by Kevin refering to Bobs comment, NOT Mitchells

at 12:51 PM Blogger jdeezman said...

Cute Mitchell in KY, your IQ shows in your posts.

bob loblaw... unfortunately you're right about the best catcher we have being the kid we picked up last year.
Ross needs to do something about his hitting... it hurt just to watch him at the plate.

Now look at what you did... Piazza will be onthe DL all year now!

at 12:51 PM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

Since we've been talking about the limits of a 4 man rotation, I have to bring up the stat line of what I think is the greatest pitching season in MLB history. It's still unbelievable as I look at it. Here are the stats from Steve Carlton's 1972 season with the Phillies. He went 27-10(on a team that only won 50 games the entire season) Pitched 346 innings-301 K's and a 1.97 ERA. This is the best part--He pitched 30 complete games!! That's right-30. Entire pitching staffs nowadays don't even come close to that. Wow.

at 12:55 PM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

Deezman knows to ignore most of the idiotic posts-smart guy. Besides, Mitchell in good ol' Kentucky is nuttier than squirrel turds, and I'm certain he smells acutely worse.

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