Reds Insider: Why aren't you going to games?

Thursday, May 15, 2008

Why aren't you going to games?

Attendance at Reds games is down significantly this year. After 20 dates last year, they had drawn 452,655 and were averaging 22,633. They year, they've drawn 411,122 and are averaging 20,556.

Why aren't you coming to games?

Is it ticket prices?

Is it gas prices?

Is it the fact that team is on streak of seven straight losing seasons? Let us know by posting a comment on our message board.

123 Comments:

at 10:17 AM

JackBlueAsh said...

John ...do you keep going back to a restaurant if the food stinks?..

seven plus years of losing

Castellini..bring back our 5 dollar riverview seats

at 10:26 AM

The Dunce Cap Marvel said...

I live in Boston. But I'm still a real Reds fan.

at 10:30 AM

Rob Dicken said...

It's not so much the gas prices for me, because I live 5 min from downtown. Even though the gas prices are outrageous and its going to keep fans away.

I go to about 20-30 games a year, and that is plenty for me.

I agree with Jack...7 + years of losing...why would I want to go anymore than that? I bet the amount of season ticket holders has dropped significantly as well.

If the Reds were winners, I would seriously think about getting season tickets. But until then, it's never really crossed my mind.

at 10:31 AM

Unknown said...

I would be more willing to go more if they brought up some of the young talent. Watching Dunn and Griffy strike out with men on is enough to keep me away. Hard to stay positve when things never change.

Look at the Cardinals, they have gone young and are doing well and people show up.

at 10:36 AM

Anonymous said...

I wonder why the question need be asked. Isn't it obvious?

Have you noticed that the Griffey/600 home run thing is not putting butts in seats? If that is his only value to us, better to let Seattle have it. It ain't doing us no good.

at 10:36 AM

docproc said...

Honest answer: It's easier and cheaper to enjoy the game from the comfort of my living room on a widescreen plasma hi-def TV.

I still get down to games occasionally, but all the stars have to align (good weather, not a huge crowd, not Fogg or Belisle on the mound, etc.).

at 10:40 AM

Anonymous said...

The weather may be a factor - its been a pretty cold spring so far. Plus, of course, the early swoon extinguished the casual fan's "opening day" enthusiasm for baseball pretty quickly. I expect that once we get back to real baseball weather, as long as the team isn't horrible, attendance will pick up.

at 10:47 AM

Unknown said...

It's a bit of both but gas prices are a big reason i'm not making it to games this yr. it's a 3 hr drive to the stadium then tack on the higher ticket prices... only going to make it to about 2-3 games this yr instead of 7-10.. (i'm not a big attender but those are the reasons).

at 10:49 AM

The Dunce Cap Marvel said...

John,
we hear a lot about the Reds not wanting to bring up Bruce yet to buy time and push back the arbitration clock. But with these big long-term contracts that are getting signed by guys like Ryan Braun and Longoria before they even play a full year, what are the implications of this precedent for Bruce? Won't the Reds want/be forced to follow suit and lock him up long-term pretty early on? Have you guys in the media broached this topic with Jocketty and the front office?

I guess it just seems like they are going to have to sign him long-term anyway to avoid those arbitration years, so why not bring him up already? Don't you want to see if he could really be something special? The Rays were sold on Longoria after like a week...

at 10:51 AM

Unknown said...

I live in Chicago and try and watch every single Reds game on MLB.tv, and go to every single game they play in Chicago. The prospect of relocating to Cincinnati late last year (which later fell through) had an added bonus, as the office building was across from the stadium and I could buy season tickets. The Reds are my team, I support them through thick and thin, I can disagree with personnel moves or coaching decisions, but I will watch and support the 25 guys with "Cincinnati Reds" across their chest. Perhaps absence makes the heart grow fonder.

at 10:56 AM

Kevin said...

I think once the weather heats up and fans don't have to bring a blanket or rain coat, attendance will pick up.

Then again, its not always the weather. I live in Chicago and there were 39,745 people at a Thursday day game in 50 degree overcast weather.

Helps to have bars though.

at 10:57 AM

hey hey redlegs said...

b/c they pretty much suck right now. why would someone spend all that money (thats needed for other things now-a-days) on a baseball team that has been crap for the past decade? ya, ok cueto, volquez are reasons yes, but worth 60-70 dollars when everthing else is so expensive?

easy fix for attendance........PUT A GOOD WINNING PRODUCT ON THE FIELD DAY IN AND DAY OUT THEN PEOPLE WILL GO TO GAMES. Don't get me wrong i love the reds but i'd rather watch it at home in HD then spend all that cash to watch them lose.

at 11:06 AM

Matt McWax said...

I live in Illinois, so that's my excuse. I personally would love to go to games this year. Being a winner draws fans obviously but that's not the only reason to go. What about a new influx of talent: Volquez, Cueto, Votto, and soon Bruce. Jeff Keppinger (unfortunately injured now) is still pretty new and still is a great story. If you think this year is the same old-same old, you're missing the big picture.

It's a transition year, but one that could still yield a postseason, with a couple savvy moves and decisions. The hope is well-founded now.

I think the attendance differences are primarily economic, lots of people are tightening it down, I think enough to account for the discrepancy. But I agree that it will improve if the Reds gain 3 or 4 games in the standings.

at 11:08 AM

Unknown said...

We live two hours away. $4 a gallon gas and 4 hours of my life in a car just to watch Griffey and Dunn loaf around isn't high on my list.

at 11:08 AM

Unknown said...

I know some great fans that will not go because it physically makes them sick. Not because of Reds play but because they can't catch a smoke. I myself quit smoking a month and a half ago and started going down to the games again. I'm happy to report their record is 5-2 with my attendance.

at 11:11 AM

Scott In Louisville, KY said...

For me it isn't even about winning or losing. I am a fan so I would obviously like to see them win but I'm more concerned with the atmosphere of the ballpark. Yeah the tickets are a little up there for where I would like to sit but at least they are affordable. Unlike teams in New York and other large markets. I live in Louisville and the gas prices don't even bother me.

I haven't been to a game yet this year, although I plan on it soon, but in previous years I have gone to 10-15 and there is no enthusiasm at the stadium. That is unless we are playing the Cardinals or Cubs and then it is just the opposing teams fans being obnoxious.

The food prices are a little high and that keeps me from purchasing more and having an even better time. But bottom line is that there is no energy in that ballpark and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have been there and the place was rocking.

Obviously winning has something to do with it. I have been Griffey's biggest fan since '89 but they need a youth movement. Something to get everyone excited. Send Griffey off so that he can get his ring. He deserves it!

at 11:12 AM

JackBlueAsh said...

kevin..attendance might pick up marginally when the weather improves.

yet unless the team ichanges significantly..the improvement will be negligible..that is aside from series with teams like Cleveland or Boston

its not just the 7 straight years of losing ..basically aside from a year or two or three..its the last 17 years of losing

JAB/CSA

at 11:16 AM

tb in bexley said...

jack- i am shocked to say it, but i agree with you. i remember game 1 in '95 vs. atlanta. painful extra inning loss, but riverfront was rocking. sitting next to my dad at the game, i could have never imagined this franchise would be in the position that it is today. i must have driven down from columbus for 15-20 games that year. in spite of gas and ticket prices, i will make it to a few games this year, but i have to admit: i am disillusioned. it wasn't long after '95 (we should not have been swept in that series by the way) that we started in with the rebuilding talk and looking to the new stadium. well here we are, and other than the miracle season of '99 (which still did not produce a playoff appearance), we are no better. i thought they did a half-ass design on the stadium, far below the quality and feel of jacobs field. they have neither committed to rebuilding nor winning, and the result is less than mediocrity. i can't push the bulk of my family's monthly entertainment dollars to support what has been and remains a directionless franchise. i am rooting for bob, walt, and dusty, but you can't argue with the results. the city and mlb suffers when proud franchises such as ours fail to be either competitive or committed to playing intriguing young prospects. i can't continue to watch jr. jerk his head trying to hit a tater or dunn jog after balls in the corner. we have lost our grip on the columbus market and are seeing the effects at the gate. i will remain ever hopeful and follow every game; but in this economic climate, i can't justify the time or money supporting this team at the ballpark. to be honest with you, i'd rather watch the bats take on the clippers in columbus. thanks for your hard work john, i know you want this thing to get turned around as bad as we do.

at 11:16 AM

Steven Ross said...

I live in San Francisco, subscribe to MLB so I can watch the Reds and would go to some games if I lived in Cincy but...this team has been kind of boring until lately.

Years of losing equals apathy.
Currently, being in last place doesn't help and finally, I think any excitement of watching Griffey and Dunn left town a long time ago.

at 11:19 AM

Anonymous said...

I've been to two games this year and was headed there yesterday, but turned around because of the rain. I'm going tonight and tomorrow.

The two obvious factors are the success of the team and the age of the players. Every city in the league (the State of Florida excepted) proves that people will go when the team starts winning.

I know that I would be much more likely to go to see Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey play than Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey. In fact the first two games I went to were deliberately to see Johnny Cueto and Joey Votto.

It was so exciting to see Paul Janish win the game the other night. I'd come to the stadium just to see him play right now, except I know Dusty will play his former player instead of Janish.

I think it says volumes that Junior's "chase to 600" isn't attracting fans - and undercuts the main reason for not trading him. No rational person would expect him to hit a home run in a particular game they attended.

The Reds need to bring up those young players, PLAY THEM, and start marketing that team as a reason to come to the stadium. That may also be the ticket to winning.

One last factor is surely the TV coverage of all the games - especially for people who live far away from the stadium.

Thanks for asking.

at 11:20 AM

JackBlueAsh said...

Obviously winning has something to do with it. I have been Griffey's biggest fan since '89 but they need a youth movement. Something to get everyone excited. Send Griffey off so that he can get his ring. He deserves it!

winning has everything to do with it
..many will help drive Ken Griffey to the airport

Julies parents gave us free tickets for Sat and Sunday.. 4 rows behind the Reds dugout..its free we are there..maybe

JBA

at 11:20 AM

Bcbdub said...

Reasons why I haven't been to the ballpark (biggest to smallest):

1. My 2 year old son. Once he gets old enough to sit through a couple of innings, we will be there.
2. Great chance the Reds will lose. Nothing worse than paying $30 for a ticket, $7 for a beer, $4 for a hotdog, and who knows what else, and then watch the Reds get lambasted for 9 innings. Easier to turn the tube off at home when the inevitable hits.
3. Horrible weather. Not that you can blame the Reds for that.
4. Outrageous gas prices. I make enough money and live close enough to the park as this isn't that big of a deal, but it's only going to get worse.
5. Lack of entertainment in the area sans the Ballpark. Before the game, after the game- what do you do? Northern Kentucky is nice but it's a long walk or a boat ride away. That tract of land between GABP and Paul Brown needs to get developed- put in some restaurants/bars/entertainment.

at 11:21 AM

Fisch said...

Yeah, the gas is a reason. I'm a season ticket holder, even though I live 3 hrs. from the ballpark. It never phased me to make the 6 hr. roundtrip, until it cost over $70 in gas alone. So that automatically will force one's hand, regardless of what the Reds are doing on the field. However, I would not be in the majority as far as drive time. I would guess 85-90% of fans live within an hour's drive to go to games.
That leads to the main reason, which has been pointed out by nearly every response....LOSING. Why (unless you are a masochist) would you continually pay, in my case, over $100 per trip to be completely annoyed, frustrated, and perplexed by an organization's refusal to prosper?
One can only ride in a car for three hours, only to watch the opponent drop 7 runs in the first three innings, so many times before they figure out that there are better ways to spend one's time. Don't get me wrong, I've been ridiculed most of my life for being a Reds fan, so I'm not about to give up on them. But until they can put a contender (let alone a winner) on the field, my money can do other things. I'll still buy season tickets each year, because who knows when they bust out of this funk and make the post-season. Until that time...10 games a year, tops.

at 11:22 AM

Musty Dusty said...

My wife a life time Red Sox fan and myself a life time Reds fan planned all winter to attend the four game series between the Reds and Sox. Unfortunately the greedy Reds had to tie that series tickets with three other nights with other teams made it impossible for us to attend. Too expensive to drive from North Dakota to Cincinnati four different weekends. Instead went to see the Sox play the Twins this past weekend series. Good to see the Twins are not that greedy and they are in first place.

at 11:23 AM

Unknown said...

How about all of the above? I just can't see spending $20, $30 bucks on a seat, spending double that in gas to drive from Columbus, all to see my beloved Reds get pounded by the Pirates or somebody. No thank, you.

I could justify the gas expense if I thought they had a 50-50 chance of winning when I got there, but after seven years...

at 11:24 AM

HoosierVirg said...

I became a Reds fan in 1945, I went through eleven losing seasons as a Reds fan in those early years, this present losing "streak" is a piece of cake. I still go to my ten to fifteen games a year because i am a Reds fan and baseball fan and am passing on my love of the game to my grandson who attends some games with me. I love GABP but Crosley is still my favorite. I have been to three games so far, had a ticket to the rainout last night, plus one Bats game. In all but one of those games have sat in the rain so the weather is holding me back from additional games right now. Tomorrow, my little companion and I will be over to get our BP bobbleheads and watch the Reds and Indians.

at 11:27 AM

Mike_R said...

The losing is a huge part. The fact OTR is in the news nearly every night with someone being shot and killed is also a big part. It may not be anywhere near the stadium, but it has an effect.

at 11:38 AM

anon said...

My son's eleven. He's a pitcher and shortstop. Loves the game. I even remember when he was three or four and would say in an announcer's voice "Gregg Bonnn" (he was trying to say Greg Vaughn). Unfortunately, the Reds haven't won since around those days and his interest in going to games has dwindled to about once a month.

at 11:41 AM

KevinFtMyers said...

Obviously I dont live in Cincy, but I would answer "All of the above"

The VALUE just isnt there, with anything you buy, you look for value, and between the prices of gas + parking + tickets + concessions when weighed against a product that is not a quality product, there is no value.

All of these aspects create a kind of "perfect storm" that makes fans stay away.

at 11:47 AM

ST fan said...

Three reasons I haven't gone to my usual number of Reds games. They have moved spring training away from Sarasota ( which the WS champs from Boston now find very attractive). Marty complains so much, why would anyone want to go see a team he says is awful? BC is an interfering owner who makes terrible decisions. I guess I could add, selfish Griffey doesn't play to win.

That's enough reasons to keep me away all summer.

at 11:49 AM

24/7 said...

the reds need to start winning. i live in columbus, so i make a game when i can no matter who we play or who's pitching because, well, we haven't been in a position to call anybody's team bad lately.

a big run this year and a playoff berth, and that 20,000 turns into 30 in 2009. but we all know the roster has too much dead weight, insufficient right handed pop and contact, and a lack of speed. fixable, yes, but the reds never seem to fix, merely band aid.

at 11:50 AM

AndrewHSmith7000 said...

I was planning on driving up from Nashville for a game this weekend, until I saw ticket prices for an OUTFIELD seat were $27 each. Add in $50 for gas, and my wife and I would be spending over $100 just to see one game in May. The Reds won't draw much regional support with those kind of prices.

at 11:50 AM

Anonymous said...

Here's the deal: it's the ticket prices, along with the prices of everything else in the ballpark.

The people who would be willing to go to every game of a homestand, your college kids, and twenty-something singles can't afford it. We are either in college, or just out of college and paying back loans. We can't afford a $25 ticket for a decent seat, and close to $7 for a beer more than once or twice a summer.

I love baseball, and I love the Reds. If I could afford it, I'd go every night of a homestand, but with the price of a ticket nearing ridiculous, minus the uncomfortable bleachers, and the fact that I can buy a 12-pack cheaper than I can get one beer at the ballpark, I can only justify making it out to the ballgame once or twice a summer.

If the Reds tried a promotion like a thirsty thursday (very successful at minor league parks), or sold hot dogs and pretzels for a dollar at every game, it might make attendance better. Drop the price of a decent seat a few bucks to where someone who cares about the game and about the Reds can have a decent view of the action.

It also wouldn't hurt to win a few games. Maybe bench/trade Dunn and/or Griffey, and go with the "speed" lineup, as Dusty refers to it, every game. It got us 10 runs out in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago, and has worked a few times since. We don't need 500ft. beer league softball homers, we need to hit-and-run and sacrifice bunt. The pitching has been good enough to win on most nights, for once.

So lower the prices, and WIN! At least steal a few bases and make it exciting.

If you build it, and let us in at reasonable prices, we will come.

Win a few games, and ease our pain.

Go the distance.

Alex Widolff
Reds fan
Broke

at 11:54 AM

Brian said...

I live near Columbus and used too average 10-12 games per year. I would say it's both gas and performance. I've been to 1 game this year and I can't see myself coming more than 3 more times this year.

at 11:56 AM

Todd McElmurray said...

Years of producing below average product aside; I believe the Reds missed a HUGE opportunity when they built the new stadium. The location is absolutely horrible (you have a freak'in freeway separating the stadium from downtown!).

They should have built it where there could have been more urban development around the stadium (shops, bars, restaurants, condos) so that going to the game was truly a social experience with more options.

Of all the newer stadiums built in the past 5-6 years, ours is pretty weak all things considered (I've been to most). The Reds brass (Allen?) really blew it.

at 11:57 AM

Mr. Doom and Gloom said...

because they suck, they've sucked for a long time, and they don't seem all that concerned about doing anything about it

at 12:08 PM

JD in the SD said...

John,

I have been a big Reds fan from growing up on the east coast and used to have family in Cincy. It all comes down to having a competitive product on the field. Living in San Diego only allows me to run down to Petco for the 4-game series next week and maybe a game in L.A. But I've seen it here with the Padres pathetic offense getting them off terribly that the attendance is down. It will always be solid here though with the ballpark right smack in the middle of downtown. Lots of great bars nearby, not sure how the surroundings of GABP are since I haven't been there in years.

I have been a big Griffey supporter through it all. But even I admit it may be time to move on and bring up Bruce and also Bailey. Honestly, I would rather part ways with Dunn before anythign else and find us a good right-handed bat with that money. I really believe this team has some great potential with a few moves and consequently, attendance is going to get better.

My two cents...

at 12:09 PM

Anonymous said...

I have gone twice so far, both within the last week. But why have i not gone more is its to expensive. why pay 14 bucks to sit in the top row right behind home plate when i can go to bw3 and have wings, potato wedges, a coke, and a better seat. Make them 5 bucks again and i'll be there more

at 12:10 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

you can find places to park from between .75 cents to 3 bucks..that aint an issue

concessions are expensive everywhere..bring your own food and water

for most people that attend games on a regular basis, gas price is not an issue

ticket prices are reasonable..except for the fact that Castellini raised the price of our riverview seats

ITS THE LOSING and the lazy dinosours like Griffey and Dunn

at 12:13 PM

Mike in Piqua said...

It's a lot of things that add up. Costs alot to watch a team you know is going nowhere. There's really nothing to do near the stadium, and how many times can you go to Newport before you wear that out.

If I'm driving 1.5 - 2 hours I want something more to do than just a the ballgame.

at 12:16 PM

Unknown said...

We live 3 hours away, have been to 6 games...will probably make it to 6 more games.

We would've went to more, but with the shortage of weekend series in the early season, we haven't had as many opportunities.

But the following factors certainly make a difference: gas prices, ticket prices, hotel taxes/prices, Saturday day games, not being able to buy tickets for all 3 Reds Sox series games, bad weather, no ballpark atmosphere in the immediate area...put some restaurants/bars/game day events in the hole between the football and baseball stadiums.

at 12:17 PM

Unknown said...

Quit whining about the prices. If you think a $7 beer is ridiculous--don't buy it! You can park for a dollar or even free, bring in your own drinks if you are too cheap to buy them, and get a ticket for $7. If you live out of town I can understand gas prices, and even the culture of losing for the past 7 years, but complaining about concessions isn't a valid reason.

And Mike R at 11:27, what are you even talking about with OTR? Clearly you are misinformed, clinging to life in the suburbs for fear of the "scary" downtown. Even if you have a misinformed fear of OTR, park in Newport and walk across. OTR is at least 12 blocks from the stadium, and doesn't even get "seedy" until another 6 blocks or so from there. Wake up. (Or just park in Newport and walk across the bridge and avoid downtown altogether.)

at 12:18 PM

Anonymous said...

bandwagon town is the problem, goes for both the Reds and Bengals. People only want to go if the team is winning, then they wonder why the owners don't spend any money when only 10-15,000 fill up the stadium. The Yankees are in last place and I bet there next home game will still be soldout. If fans would start selling out the stadium and showing there appreciation towards the team then Bob will spend more money to get right the talent.

at 12:18 PM

michaelfpierce said...

Weather has kept me from the games that I would normally attend. I work in Lexington and it's tough for me to go during the week. The weekend weather this spring has been awful. I've yet to go to GABP this season. My first Reds game of the season will be Monday in LA because I will already be there on business.

at 12:22 PM

JF said...

I'm going to more games this year than last year. 2 already versus zero at this time last year. Tickets for 3 more including a Red Sox game.

Despite not being able to stomach Dusty Baknarron and the constant losing, I decided to support this lousy product, which is one reason I'm constantly pissed off at the stupid decisions made by ownership and on the field.

What a waste of money. But I've learned my lesson this year. No more supporting Bob Castellini.

at 12:22 PM

reaganspad said...

I place the attendance blame squarely in Bob's lap. Nobody fires a GM in 20 games or a favorite son manager in 44 games. You lose an entire offseason of promotion, Reds Caravan excitement.,..

Beat the Clevelands tonight, have Griffey homer and see what that does. The Reds are finally playing better.

Get this current run up to 7 game win streak, team is at 500, Griffey passes 600,

then count the turnstiles

at 12:24 PM

Arden Dulou said...

After an exciting start the losing and the lack of effort to bring up the youth. Until Super 2 day passes and the new look Reds arrive why come watch a team that won't be nearly the same in 1 month.

I live 3 hours away, but gas isn't the issue. For me, it requires packing up the kids and spending a lot of money to see the games. The current team (even with Volquez/Harang) can't pull me there. Why pay money to see Patterson play?

at 12:26 PM

KAGilly said...

The only thing keeping me away is the three hour trip. Personally, I would pay to watch these guys play. Why would you complain about Dunn or Griffey when you get to watch Phillips and Votto? Or go to watch Volquez pitch. I think there's a lot of positives on this team that should be putting people in the stands.

at 12:26 PM

Phill said...

It's about affordability and the price of a ticket. I don't care about how much food costs. I eat before I go to the ballpark and only a fool would be willing to pay the outrageous price of drinks at the ballpark. Another thing I HATE is the whole 'premium' games. Great add more to the price when people aren't showing up as it is. Instead of getting a 14 dollar View Level ticket it'd cost 19 bucks. That's as much as a front row seat in right field cost last year. I understand it's a business but I can't help feeling out in the cold over that kind of price jump. If this team had come anywhere near first place last year I could understand this but they haven't for a while so it comes off foolish.

Last year I went to about 20-25 games. The year before(I moved here in late 05) I went to about 15-20. This year I've been to 2 games. It's not the losing it's just that I can't afford it anymore.

at 12:30 PM

Pat said...

Maybe Cincinnati isn't as big a baseball hotbed as one would think. I lived in College Hill growing up, in St. Louis from 84-95 and now in Phoenix. St. Louis is by far a bigger baseball town.

Cincinnati is just not a ball town anymore.

at 12:32 PM

kevel said...

I had fun reading what other have written. I live in Vermont and it is sounding a lot like what people said about going to see the Expos in Montreal. When they were winning the place was packed. But after they started losing, and the ownership did nothing to change things around, the stadium died. You could go up and for $15 sit in the front row and see some great baseball. But everyone was tired of watching the team lose so it just withered and died and then moved to Washington. Hey maybe the Reds can move to Montreal so I can go see some National league ball again.

As for the cost it is $75 to Park in Boston and forget about buying a cheap ticket.

at 12:32 PM

kevel said...

at 12:33 PM

Unknown said...

I'm in agreement with several of the above posters. I'm living in Columbus, so even before gas prices were this high it cost too much to make the trip to very many games.

However, I would always try to make it to the mid-week bobblehead promos. But $7-8 beers (I'm not looking to get drunk, but would like to be able to afford 2 drinks during a 9 inning game) and rising ticket prices are leaving no value in the trip for me.

I'm not even so concerned with the losing, but it seems like every area in the stadium is trying to milk fans out of every dime possible. One or the other has to change, ticket or food/drink prices.

at 12:33 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Lots reasons for people not to go;
In no particular order:
1. ticket prices.
2. gas prices.
3. beer prices.
4. food prices.
5. weather.
6. terrible team.
7. multi-millionaire ballplayers who don't appear to give a damn.
8. smoking ban.
9. nothing to do around the ballpark. (Bars,restaurants, clubs). Its fun to spend a day in Chicago.
St CSA

at 12:35 PM

Anonymous said...

Being in Columbus time and gas prices do factor in. So does the jump in prices...Tickets and beer are up. The only thing not up is the quality in the team. Why bother? I havent missed a game all year on FSOH. Tonight ill be at BWs watching the Battle for Ohio cheering on the Reds.

at 12:42 PM

Joe said...

I listen to them on the radio, while connected to the internet with the TV on mute. I haven't missed a game in a few years.

I've been to games in other cities, NY (Yankee Stadium) , Atlanta, Chicago, Pittsburg, Phoenix since going to my last Reds game in Riverfront.

I've been to a number of Dayton Dragon and several other minor league stadiums, Indianapolis, Nashville, Harrisburg and Columbus. I love the fan friendly easily accessible minor league stadiums.

I try to get to a couple Spring Training games at Ed Smith Stadium each year just to see what is new with the team.

I've not yet been to a game at GAB. And, recently, I've decided that I am going to wait until Jay Bruce is in a Reds uniform before I go. I can't understand how a team in last place, with declining attendance can not have the best prospect in the minor leagues in uniform every night. Is is about winning or about the money?

I guess it is a combination of not seeing a winning team and the cost. Would not mind the cost as much if they would field a winning product.

at 12:42 PM

linuxguy said...

Because the line up still has Griffey and Dunn

at 12:44 PM

VB Bill said...

I am Reds fan down here in VB. I get up to Cincy a couple times during the season to take in 5-8 games. I think the Reds, in the eyes of the fan base, are very stale... stuck in the Griffy/Dunn image. They need to turn the page; get fresh and young ...have a new identity. Waiting for the 600th home run is boring in the context of the Reds current performance. Let that happen in Seattle and move on to t new future.

at 12:46 PM

Red Faced said...

Here's all my info so that you can better understand where I stand John. I'm late 30's and have been a Reds fan since a young boy during the Big Red Machine days. I now live and have always lived about 3 hrs away from the stadium in Central KY. My brother and I will attend a few games each year. It is an entire day commitment for us to do that and with our jobs and family needs that's a lot to ask for most days. We both make good money so the price of tickets isn't really the issue. But when you factor in the price of tickets with the increase in gas and the money we'll spend on concessions and then factor in that we'll spend more time driving than actualy watching the game it is asking a lot. But still we would do it all if, and it's a BIG if, if the Reds had a competitive team on the field. Right now, with rare exception there doesn't seem to be players (starters) who really lay it all out there every game. The so called leaders on the team are not leading by example. We enjoy the youthful exuberance over the more talented vets who appear to not care. I can not tell you how many times we've gone to a game over the past 3 years only to be disgusted with the level of play or at least the lack of perceived effort coming from the players on the field. If we had the Rays team instead of the Reds we'd go to more games because they are more fun to watch.

TV is no where near the experience of going to a game. Unfortunately it's no where near as painful either so why spend the time and money just to be disappointed when you can Tivo the game, spend an hour watching it and still enjoy yourself doing other things?

We purchased a 20 pack this year thinking we'd have a competitive team on the field for the first time in years, we went to the caravan with the kids just to get Jay Bruce's autograph. Well Jay is in Louisville (30 min drive for us) and now we wish we had not wasted our money on the 20 pack. I doubt we'll do so again in years to come until a winner has been fielded.

The Reds used to be all the rage in this part of the State of KY but it's been all about the Braves for years now which sucks. But they've been fielding winners for almost 20 years now and we have not. I think that says it all.

Sorry for the long post.

at 12:50 PM

Unknown said...

I believe this team could be marketed better. A lot more references and symbolic representation of the Big Red Machine in and around the ballpark would be a nice start. A cosmetic makeover of GABP would be nice. Get rid of the white concrete and steel clininal feel to the stadium, and replace it with a darker grey color, along with climbing rose bushes in the outfield beyond the batters eye on a brick buiding to replace the riverboat deck. Also, Cincinnati isn't known for much other than baseball and perhaps chili. Other cities have other sites to see, the arch in St. Louis, the golden gate in S.F., etc. Cincinnati needs to start marketing itself as "baseball city", with heavy emphasis on the 1869 team and being the birthplace of professional baseball. Perhaps even a baseball exhibit and amusement park. Where kids and coaches from around the country could go to learn from the best professionals in the industry. Finally, and most importantly, win ballgames!

at 12:51 PM

Stacy said...

I live in Nashville so put me in the "all of the above" category. It's not cheap to go to Cincinnati for the weekend but it would be a lot more enticing if I knew the Reds were a better team. I would probably be more inclined to make the trip if they just went ahead and brought the future (Bruce, Bailey, etc.) up from AAA and let them play.

at 12:54 PM

KevinFtMyers said...

JackBlueAsh said...
"you can find places to park from between .75 cents to 3 bucks..that aint an issue

concessions are expensive everywhere..bring your own food and water

for most people that attend games on a regular basis, gas price is not an issue

ticket prices are reasonable..except for the fact that Castellini raised the price of our riverview seats

ITS THE LOSING and the lazy dinosours like Griffey and Dunn"

12:10 PM

Jack this is YOUR answer, and the fact that someone elses is different doesnt make it wrong.
Why do you think that your opinion is the only one that can possibly be reasonable and correct?

Its posts like this one that make you the butt of this blog.

These things may not be issues for you, but if you read all of the posts you will see that most site multiple reasons.

The losing is huge of course you are absolutely correct, but most everyone on this blog belives its more than just that.

You GREATLY over-value your own opinion and it is a handicap in life.

Think about that.

at 12:54 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

great post Jeff.. I use the parking meters in Newport and we walk across the bridge 0-.75 cents

Over the Rhine has no affect or impact on the area around GABP

Scott..its not the money..its spending the money wisely..and Castellini has not

CSA/JBA

at 12:57 PM

Joe said...

CSA - you forgot parking prices.

at 12:58 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

All you people complaining about the cost of the game . . . complaining about the losing . . . complaining about Dunn and Griffey . . . complaining, complaining, forever complaining.

Shocker! Two teams play, someone loses. Happens every day. So what you're saying is you're really not baseball fans, you're only fans if the Reds win. Oh, if only you have a crystal ball. Bandwagoners.

How about you go to the games because you love baseball, you love the highest skill level, you like to see the "professional" game and its biggest stars, home and visitors?

You complain about costs. The Reds rank No. 20 for the cost of the family of four to attend a game. That figure: $167.71. That includes tickets, parking, concessions and souvenirs. The Reds' average ticket price is $19.41, ranking 23rd.

Aside from those who obviously live out of market, the only legitimate beefs you have are the cost of gas, which we know hurts because the Reds are generationally a regional franchise, and the value and convenience of having the games on TV. For decades owners feared the impact of TV on attendance. But then they sold out to TV money. Well, not so much the Reds. They get less than $5 million a year in TV money and show almost the entire home schedule. Idiots. With HD, La-Z-Boy, being a regional team, the team mucked in mediocrity, it's a perfect storm of factors hurting attendance.

Funny how this issue never comes up with the Cardinals. Their fans go from near and far, win or lose, every night, cheering for their team and oftentimes the opponent when a great play is made. They have a payroll that is $30 million higher than the Reds.

You wonder why? Unfettered community and regional fan support. No excuses, no whining, no complaining, no cheapskates. They love baseball, they love the Cardinals. Simple. That's why you go to the games. You love your team, you love the sport.

Otherwise, you're just a bandwagoner.

at 1:00 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

Jared..I did my residency in Columbus (Riverside) and lived in Clintonville.

If I had the time..I would go to Clippers games. 4 Dollar tickets and 25 cent hotdogs

Jared it is about winning

JBA/CSA

at 1:03 PM

Anonymous said...

Jeff, how old are you? You can't honestly think your college-aged crowd is going to a game and NOT buying at least a beer. If the price of beer was lowered to $2, watch the people flock to the ballpark. Sad as it may be, someone will watch crappy baseball for the cheap beer. I'm not whining, I am merely stating that if prices were lower people would show up to the stadium more often, myself included.

Have you ever been to a minor league game? I went to the Greensboro Grasshoppers games quite a bit when I was in school. $8 bucks was the cost of the most expensive seat, and every thursday beer was $1. There would be 11,000 people there to watch single-a baseball, which is nothing more than high school ball with wood bats.

Cheap beer = a good crowd, even if the team is lousy.
winning would cure all though.

at 1:04 PM

Anonymous said...

I plan to attend two games in July when I am in Ohio to attend a race at Mid-Ohio. I live in Missouri, but have been a Griffey fan since the early 90s. I will be less interested in attending however if Griffey is no longer a Red.

at 1:06 PM

KevinFtMyers said...

"The Yankees are in last place and I bet there next home game will still be soldout. If fans would start selling out the stadium and showing there appreciation towards the team then Bob will spend more money to get right the talent."

Yankees have also won 4 Championships since Cincy's last, that is a product of an owner that refuses to lose, not from the quality of fans.

As I mentioned before, theres no value in spending $150.00 for a family to feel embarrassed and frustrated.

You can do Kings Island for that and its 8hrs of entertainment not 4 hrs of being mad.

Question: what would the attendance be if the tickets were $10.00, Hot dogs $1.50, and beer $2.00? And who would be all that upset if the Reds lost?

Not saying this is the answer, but if your not winning, and its expensive (for a complete ballpark experience) theres no value.

at 1:07 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

Mr Redlegs you have not been to a Reds game in 20 years by your own admission..dont knock Cincinnati fans. You live 800 miles away..dont lecture us

Its the losing franchise.Put a winner on the field the fans will go to the game. I think most of us can understand losing occasionally..not seven years in a row

Joe read my 12:10 post

at 1:12 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

go to Kings Island and stand in line for 2 hours just to get on one coaster..

no value in that

at 1:19 PM

Librariman said...

In the past I've gone to anywhere from 10-20 games a year, but I doubt I'll get to anymore than 5 or 6 this year. The cost of gas plays a part but its mostly not wanting to pay to see such a lousy product. Aside from a few select players, the majority don't look like they want to be there, so why should I? I'll just watch from the comfort of my own couch so when the offense puts up 1 run for Harang again I just change the channel.

at 1:19 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

Bengals still have a ways to go but the perception is that Marvin Lewis has us headed in the right direction

Paul Brown Stadium is filled and there is a waiting list for season tickets

JBA/CSA

at 1:22 PM

Unknown said...

Starsky, I am actually 23 years old and in graduate school at Ohio State, so I am in the college age crowd. And sometimes I will buy a beer at the game, sometimes not. Being a baseball fan, beer prices aren't determinative of my decision to go to a game. Also, I am familiar with minor league baseball, and am even going to the Columbus Clippers game tomorrow night (for $6, which is just $1 less than a Reds ticket).

If beer prices are really the answer, why doesn't everyone flock to the Florence Freedom games where they have $1 beers every Thursday night? The answer is that people will pay to see high quality, WINNING baseball. Sure beer prices might factor in somewhat, but it's not why people don't go to games. And do you know why prices are so high? Because people pay it!! Stop paying for the beers, the sales will go down, and the price will follow suit. Not rocket science.

at 1:23 PM

RickDinChicago said...

Even though I live in Chicago I do try to make it to Reds games when they are in town.

This year I was presented a giant stinking pitching performance by Josh Fogg. Let me tell you I would not have gone to GAP to see that crap. So, it's no wonder local fans don't want to go to GAP.

I tell you what though, if I make it back to Cincy this summer and Volquez is pitching... I'm going to see Volquez.

at 1:26 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

I've been to Reds games each of the past 31 years. Where I live is not germane to the subject. The question of attendance is one of theory and analyses, not drunken stupor.

at 1:33 PM

redsfanwoody said...

This town is not the baseball town it once was. Look at the Bengals. they have had one winning season in the past 15-17 years and they sell out every game.

Plus alot of parents have their kids in multiple activities through the spring and summer. As a kid, it was a huge deal to go to games. I'm not sure that passion exsist in the kids today.

at 1:34 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

Lower ticket prices and cheaper concessions is your answer?!?! Good grief.

They call that the minor leagues.

The minimum MLB salary is $315,000, the average player salary is a pinch over $3 million. You do the math . . . it's called a business, not charity.

at 1:35 PM

Rob Dicken said...

Out of all of the excuses not to attend a Reds game, this is by far the WORST excuse I have heard:

"ITS THE LOSING and the lazy dinosours like Griffey and Dunn"

If you don't go to games because of two players, then you definitely aren't a fan.

at 1:42 PM

mpotts said...

Having moved back to Red's country in 2003, I usually get to 3-4 games per season, but watch every game on FSN. In the last few years, the Reds haven't won one of the games that I have attended. While this was bad enough, if the team put a product on the field that would generate excitement, then the attendence would come. Put the young guys like Bruce and Janish in there, and the enthusiasm will return, as will the fans.

at 1:46 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

If you read the posts..the common theme is a lack of winning.. in fact..

Parking is not an issue at GABP..you can find reasonable spaces for anywhere between 0-3 bucks..

Refreshment prices are in line with other venues across the country

Seat prices are slightly below national average

not my opinion..just fact

Kevin you told us this past winter that you moved from Bellevue Kentucky to Florida when your father got a new job.. Lets show a little maturity and honesty. Thank you ..as I am sure John would appreciate that

at 1:48 PM

Mr. Rawlings said...

It's simple..the selfish attitude taken by the Reds management when they disguise all the good they do during the season ie: Reds Community Fund etc..and then the very people who are the heart and soul of thier efforts..the fans... are exploited at GABP with prices such as a $7.00 beer..a regular soda at $4.25...How about a $7.00Brownie!!! A lousy hot dog..naked with just a bun and a weiner at nearly $4.00..a hamburger at $8.75!!..Couple all this with parking at a minumum of $10...and a less than average baseball team that hasn't had a winning season in years. I got news for the Reds..I couldn't care less if Griffey get #600 or #700 it doesn't change my life, my income or my way health...life goes on. I guess we are supposed to go to the game, pay exorbitant prices and root for the millionaires and spend money we really don't have! Certainly no reason to attend.
Want more than 12-15,000 at a game..? Produce a winner, get rid of the corner outfield millionaires, bring up the kids who are hungry, and REDUCE the ticket, food and drink prices so that a fan can go without missing a house payment!

at 1:51 PM

stan from oregon said...

Well, living in Oregon is why I don't go, but I do have an observation.

Living here I grew up a Blazers fan. Went to a few games back in the 90's when the franchise and team were on top. Back then they had a very long consecutive sell out streak going. I live 4 hours from Portland so tickets were hard to come by. However, I always seemed to find a way and the money to go...because they were winners. Last few years I wouldn't have walked across the street to watch them play. But now, things are looking up(thanks for Oden Ohio State :)) and people are finding a way to pay for the tickets, gas, etc.

Reds contend and people will show...plain and simple.

Wouldn't hurt to bring up Bruce either.

at 1:58 PM

KB from WSU said...

Bring up the youth! Then I will come.

at 2:05 PM

Arden Dulou said...

Not just winning but being serious about winning. If the Reds were serious there would of been major player changes in the last few weeks to fill in the holes everyone can see. Since the Reds want to wait until ~Super 2 day to be serious, I can too. I was excited about this season by my frustration has grown since that sweep by the Pirates so early in the year. Yes, the schedule was tough but it has become obivious the real talent sits in AAA.

It is almost like the Reds picked up all these veterans just to trade them for prospects and keep the kids for one more year on the cheap. The team is just constructed in such a strange way...

at 2:08 PM

reaganspad said...

Jack, quit attacking Mr. Redlegs.

Stop it. Just Stop. He says more in his one post than you do in your 237 posts. Just leave him be

And quit lying about what others post.

This blog improves when you are gone because you just never learn

at 2:08 PM

KevinFtMyers said...

"Paul Brown Stadium is filled and there is a waiting list for season tickets"

GABP would be the same or worse if there were only 8 games. Not a good comparison.

at 2:09 PM

KyRedsfan said...

I'm another Central Ky. fan. I went to opening day and havent been back since. I have a 12 year old son who eats and sleeps baseball and loves the Reds. We have averaged 5 games a year in his lifetime and out of all those games he has seen the home team win two or three times he can remember.

at 2:14 PM

Phill said...

Mr. Redlegs normally I agree with you in a general sense but come on. Just because they rank well doesn't mean it is still affordable to your average person. If I had the means I'd go to every home game I could and some away games but I don't. Great for St. Louis. I don't care what St. Louis does.

at 2:34 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

Put a winner on the field everything else becomes secondary

JBA/CSA

at 2:46 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

comparing franchises such as the Bengals and Reds and the loss of revenue by diminished attendance is an excellent analysis..regardless of the number of dates.

When you compare the average price of a ticket, the loss of 20000 fans in a single Bengals game is quite comparable to what is hitting Mr Castellini at this point in time with his diminished attendance

Mr Redlegs you may want to explain this to Kevin et al..I gotta run

bye gang

JAB/CSA

at 2:47 PM

cincikid said...

I was just thinking. Didn't Mr. Castellini say that he once owned season tickets in the luxary boxes but sold them after watching the performance of the Reds under Lindner? I guess he was a "bandwangoneer" too. Oddly he was in the owner group of the Cardinals.

at 2:54 PM

Rob Dicken said...

Put a winner on the field everything else becomes secondary

In YOUR opinion. People have stated reasons that keep them away. They may not be YOUR reasons, but they are reasons of other posters and are what are keeping THEM away. They could care less if those are discerning to you or not.

Just because people post differentiating things from you, doesn't make them wrong. Your opinion is not everyone else's, and you need to be accepting of that and quit trying to push your thoughts and opinions on other people that don't want to see 50000000000 posts of you repeating yourself.

at 3:00 PM

AndrewHSmith7000 said...

Being a former St. Louis resident (hence I was originally, "exiled in stl,") I can speak to one issue: back when the Cardinals weren't very good for a few years in a row, they couldn't sell many tickets either. And the St. Louis metro area has 3 million people, which I think is bigger than Cincy's. I know Cards fans like to proclaim their superiority, but they really aren't any different from any other fan.

at 3:09 PM

Anonymous said...

You people make me sick... I am currently enrolled at Ohio University in Athens and it kills me that I don't get to go to reds games right now... one of the biggest reasons I can't wait for summer is so i can attend games, you have the opportunity and don't go... if you were as real of fans as you pretend to be, you would be there... atleast I know I would

at 3:10 PM

Another losing season said...

Downtown Cincinnati and surrounding ballpark area is so lame.

at 3:25 PM

Unknown said...

Because John Fay sucks. Period.

at 3:27 PM

Cathie said...

In August 2006, the Reds were playing the Cardinals in a battle for first place. The Reds had to sell half price tickets and dollar hot dogs just to get people to come to the ballpark. FIRST PLACE.

The Reds are 11-9 this season at home, so the chance of seeing a win is better than not. Seems to me that losing doesn't have everything to do with it.

I agree with Mr. Redlegs here: So what you're saying is you're really not baseball fans, you're only fans if the Reds win. But as for the Cardinals, their attendance figures were the same as ours 13 years ago before Jocketty started building a winning franchise. The sad truth is, the general American public mentality of today is that of a bandwagoner. It's not just baseball. It's everything from politics to clothing to the type of music someone listens to. That's the reality, and teams have to deal with that. The team is grappling with the problem of how to make a losing team cool.

I agree with the price of tickets and food being outrageous, and that teams ignore Economics 101 and the laws of supply and demand. (Costs should go DOWN when demand is low, not up.)

A caller on that Tracy Jones show yesterday said Atlanta sells $1 tickets one half hour before the game - about 5000 of them, he said. Um, earth to Reds???

And how to cut the cost of concessions when concessions are contracted out?

So many ideas out there - how about get a free beer with advanced ticket purchase at the window? So you go to one game and buy tix to a future game, show your ID, and get a card that entitles you to a free beer. Some people will buy extra tickets for more, but it loses its cost efficiency at some point so you won't have people buying up ten tickets just for ten free beers that would have cost the same price as the number of tickets you purchased.

Dollar hot dog nights. On a regular basis.

Those all you can eat seats? A rip off. You're paying $30 for a $12 seat and all you can get is hot dogs, popcorn, peanuts, and pepsi products? I saw during the Atlanta series a sign for their all you can eat seats, so I looked it up online. For $65 you get decent seats and all you can eat and drink, including pork sandwiches and beer. Now THAT is a deal.

Oh, and the young guys. They want behinds in the seats? Bring up Bruce and Bailey. People don't want to see Corey Patterson and his career .298 on base percentage. People would be far more willing to sit through some losing if they could watch the future of winning. Shoot, the game they call Bruce up, I am there. Probably twice in a week.

I feel sorry for those who'd rather sit at home and watch it on television. What a waste of life. There's nothing you can do to bring them in.

at 3:32 PM

John Fay said...

And I've asked my friends not to post.

at 3:33 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

There is absolutely ZERO comparison's sake between the attendances and revenues of an NFL vs. an MLB team. Nothing. Everything about their models is completely different.

However, why people continue to rip the Reds and support the Bengals, which is a higher cost point and an organization with a far worse pedigree and dubious past, is beyond belief. Even sports sociologists couldn't explain that one.

at 3:40 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

Daedalus and someone else brings up a great point: marketing. There's some really creative stuff done around MLB, especially in the two months of the season while schools are in session. But the Reds seem to keep trudging by on the same 'ol, same 'ol. When your big draw is a bobblehead, you need new perspectives, and the creative packages the Braves, Rockies and padres, among a few others, are doing is the way.

As someone pointed out, value for value. And that has nothing to do with the on-field product.

In the '70s, when the it was very difficult to get a seat--red or blue seats--the Reds acted like it was an honor to open the doors for you. Times have changed, of course, but some of the mentality is still there:

Here's professional baseball, here's what it costs, come on down. . . !

at 3:49 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! I think its all been covered. How about a Hamilton update or something.
St CSA

at 4:10 PM

bench5 said...

I live on the coast of South Carolina so unless I am in that area travelling, I will not be going to a home game.

Having said that, I drove to Atlanta two weekends ago with my son to see my first Reds game. I was treated to see a wonderfully pitched game by Voltron and a horrible display of offense by the team and inexcusable defense by patterson. $80 for tickets and about $200 for gas was worth it but obviously would have been better driving home with a win.

Go Reds and I will be back in Atlanta to watch them next year!

at 4:25 PM

Unknown said...

This is easy. All the games are on TV. Has nothing to do with winning or losing since everyone loves the atmosphere, that's just a whiny excuse to complain. I'll still go to 5-10 games this year, but they'll be on weekends rather than during the week when I can come home after work, relax and watch the game on a 46" LCD. The Reds could boost attendance by not putting so many games on TV, but I'm not sure if the TV revenue is even higher than that lost attendance generates.

at 4:26 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

I went away for a run with the dog and directed our Mr Redlegs to provide a simple analogy...tsk tsk..

bottom line:::empty seats are empty seats.. very shaky bottom line and diminishment of the overall value of the franchise

an analogy can transcend ..loss of revenue is loss of revenue

"I feel sorry for those who'd rather sit at home and watch it on television. What a waste of life"

some can only watch games from afar..not my problem

JAB/CSA

at 4:35 PM

Unknown said...

As I mentioned before, theres no value in spending $150.00 for a family to feel embarrassed and frustrated.

150????? What are you doing down there? You're allowed to bring your own drinks and pack sandwiches.

at 4:51 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

Reds had a great team there in the 70s

JAB

at 4:57 PM

Red Faced said...

Just to add more to my own personal reasons for not attending more games. First off, no matter how poor this team is I always make it to a few games a year. And I've been to the last 4 opening day games. However the combination of the drive time for me (3 hrs one way) and the lackluster performance of the team on the field keeps me from going to more games. It's not strictly wins and losses as it is putting a group of guys on the field that are a joy to watch. It's not bandwagoning. Bandwagoning is completely jumping ship on the team, never attending, never watching and then jumping on the lastest greatest team out there. And the thing is there are a LOT of people who do that and as Reds fans we all pay for their actions as a result of this team being so poor on the field because ultimately we want these bandwagoners to support the team so that we can increase revenue.

An excellent product on the field would make those of us that attend 10 games a year attend 20, those that could attend almost every game would likely do so and people who don't attend any would want to get in on the act some. Winning solves a lot of the attendence problems. But right now there are guys on this team I don't care whether they are in the lineup when I'm in attendance or not. And there are others like Keppinger or Bruce or Volquez or Cueto whom I wish would be in the lineup.

I know last year we went to see the Reds and were excited to see Josh Hamilton play and we enjoyed his talent and his drive and his joy of playing. I'm not knocking the Hamilton trade but we lack someone who packs the stands. If people aren't excited about Junior getting close to 600 then I think that speaks volumes for what the fans think of his on field performance and effort.

at 5:04 PM

John Fay said...

There's sort of unban myth about the way the Reds drew in the 1970s. You hear people say they had 35,000 every night.

The best they did was 32,465, as far as average. That was in 1976 when the drew a record 2.6 million. They drew 2.3 million in '75, 2.5 in '77, 2.5 in '78, 2.3 in '79 and a hair over 2 million in 1980.

'03 was best in the current park at 2.3 millino.

at 5:13 PM

Red Faced said...

Hey John, how did the Reds attendance compare to other teams in that same time period you are talking about in the 70's?

at 5:41 PM

John said...

Fan interest is definitely there. Look at all these posts.

Have to take issue with the bandwagon stuff. I never understood why it's soooooo important for people to be More Of A Fan Than You.

Show up and root for a crap team all you want -- that gives ownership no incentive to change anything. Resist paying for an inferior product and that sends a message -- someone up top needs to get off their duff and do something besides releasing Juan Castro. Firing the third GM in five years was a knee-jerk move that smacked of cronyism and impatience, and Jocketty has done NOTHING since taking over.

Seriously...people were screaming for them to cut Castro for like 2 years. Stanton, all last year and winter. So they dump Krivsky and fans expect changes. But it's just more of the same. Still looking at Patterson and Fogg -- two more useless players eating something like $4 million. Jocketty says he's "had no trade discussions" regarding either Fogg or Griffey.

Where is Walt Jocketty's hammock and how do we get him out of it?

Notice the patterns. For Homer's major league debut, that park was electric. The ovation when he walked off the field felt a little like 1990. What does Homer get this year? A one-way trip to AAA to "work on some things." What do fans get? Matt Belisle, again, est. 2003.

Why can't Matt Belisle "work on some things"?

Paul Janish wins the game in his debut. Joey Votto his three homers against the freakin' Cubs. Edinson Volquez leading the world in pitching. See the pattern? Young players bringing exciting baseball back to town. Guys who play hungry, aggressive, winning baseball, just like this town loves to watch.

You can't fault fans for showing their preference by not paying for anything less. How come a town so conservative can't grasp this basic business idea?

at 5:46 PM

Red Faced said...

John, I did some research myself and here's what I found online at http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/attendance.htm

From 70-79 the Reds were second in overall attendance with 21.4 mil, the Dodgers were first with 24.4 mil; total attendance was 329 mil for all teams

From 80-89 the Reds were 15th with 16.7 mil, the Dodgers again led the league this time with 30.9 mil for the decade. ; total attendance was 459 mil for all teams.

From 90-99 the Reds were up to 8th with 20.8 mil. Tor led the way with 31 mil the Dodgers were 2nd with 29.7 mil for the decade. ; total attendance was 601 mil for all teams.

2007-2007 the Reds are ranked 20th with about 17 mil, The Yanks lead the way with 29.7 mil and the Dodgers are again 2nd at 27 mil, SF is a close 3rd with 25.9 mil; total attendance is 584 mil for all teams.

With all this data it looks to me like even though the numbers for The Big Red Machine years might be similar to now in attendance that the Reds were drawing higher attendance than most teams were during that same time frame. And the were getting a bigger percentage of the overall attendance. In retrospect in the decades since the Reds have drawn less from a growing market than most other teams are. With the exception of the 90's the Reds have had lower attendance than the majority of clubs. I think it's pretty easy to see that as the club's record and success goes so does the attendance. To be drawing 20th out of 30 teams is sad but the team on the field has been playing in the bottom 10 during that same stretch.

Simply put if the Reds want to put more fans in the seats then they need to put a better team on the field.

Can this team draw another million in attendance with a winner on the field? If so how much do those extra million fans spend? $10 per, $20 per? Is 10-20 mil enough to spend on salary to make this team a winner?

at 5:52 PM

Todd McElmurray said...

Kudos to you John. Your question has received many a spirited response . . . more than what I can recently recall.

Of course, there are certain individuals who feel compelled to restate their opinion over and over again at nauseam.

All in all an enjoyable read of everyone's thoughts. Send it off to Castellini!

at 6:08 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

"What are you doing down there? You're allowed to bring your own drinks and pack sandwiches"

........that sounds like a lot of fun.
St CSA

at 6:10 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

Great question, Red-Faced 5:13, because drawing 2 mil in the 70s was not the same barometer of today. The threshold now is 3 mil and 2 mil is a bad year.

In 1975, the Reds' 2.315 attendance was second only to the Dodgers at 2.539.

In 1976, the Reds' 2.629 mil led all of baseball.

at 6:14 PM

Another losing season said...

Very good post kingeyeland...right on the money.

Jocketty's hammock...laugh out loud funny.

at 6:43 PM

John Fay said...

I'm stunned by how few people are in the park right now. The Reds got 38,000 for the Indians on the Friday nighyt date last year. I'd be surprised if they get 25,000 tonight -- unless it's a really late-arriving crowd.

at 6:43 PM

reaganspad said...

Cantu update? the guy cannot play 3rd base.

I'll take Jerry Hairston thankyou

at 6:48 PM

JackBlueAsh said...

John ..we were gonna go..just could not get motivated

JBA

at 11:30 PM

Unknown said...

I, too, live in Chicago and have suffered as a huge Reds fan. But even I didn't go in April. Here is what gets me:

If Reds ownership had gone with a Ron Oester-type manager, no Corey Patterson type signings, I'd be more excited about the team, regardless of the record. This "win one for Griffey" mentality from Castellini (hire the wrong manager, push bad veterans, win now) is a turn-off, and would be a turn-off even if we were in first place (because it wouldn't last).

And I confess I count the days to when Griffey gets traded. Not because of the injuries, but he doesn't seem to care. He has an ego of a player who has actually played well the last decade, and he hasn't done so. I hate being at Wrigley Field and watching him booed because he's "dangerous" when he is no such thing.

Play the rookies, give them a chance; this team will not win in 2008, won't ever win with Griffey. Or and someone wake up Jocketty. He's the only one besides Castellini who hasn't already traded Griffey in his or her mind.

at 8:36 AM

mredsnut said...

Alot of my reasons is the expense of going to a game. I used to have weekend season tickets, and just found with the team always tanking, it got harder to get someone to go with me, and now that Im retired, it just isnt in my budget anymore. I still go to games occasionally, but another reason is the stupid smoking ban! You cant tell me that being OUTSIDE, that you cant let people go to the wall by the river, away from the NON SMOKING WHINERS, and be able to have a couple of ciggys, after spending $7 for a beer?? Sorry, but I can smoke, have cheaper food and drinks at home, without paying anywhere from $7 - $20 for parking. Yeah, I know you can find cheaper alternatives, but between no smoking and a bad team, I wont go to many games till they show us fans something more. Get rid of Griffey and maybe Dunn too. Hope that Bruce is just as exciting to watch as Josh Hamilton was, and maybe fans will come back more often!!

at 12:41 PM

Mr. Redlegs said...

I completely understand mini-plan holders, especially for the Sunday packages, becoming disenchanted because their investment is a weekend commitment for entertainment. These are the fans who tend to bolt first but they are also the most easily replaced because of the price point.

But to complain about the smoking ban? There are MLB parks that have had that ban in place for 15 years. Over the past two years there has been a sweeping national storm of local governments passing smoking bans in bars and restaurants, causing many to go out of business.

You are an overwhelming minority on the smoking in public places issue. Inside, outside—doesn't matter. If this is a reason for not attending professional sporting events in the U.S., then yes you should probably watch from home.

It's not a Cincinnati issue, it's a national cultural, lifestyle, wellness and health issue.

at 1:03 PM

Red Faced said...

John, I've likely spent more time thinking about this than I should but after looking up the attendance numbers for the last 4 decades what do you feel is the reason the Dodgers have consistently drawn #1 or #2 in every decade? It seems obvious that winning propelled the Reds close to the top in the 70's and that winning also propelled the BlueJays and Yanks to the top in the decades they led but the Dodgers have been a mainstay which seems to go against every other team's attendance trend.

My best guess would be the excellent weather during the entire season, a strong history of winning and a large fan base but would like to know what you think.

Would make a good study for someone.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008

Why aren't you going to games?

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