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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Saturday, October 13, 2007

It's Baker

The Reds and Dusty Baker agreed to a three-year deal. The formal announcement will come Monday.

I think it broke late Saturday because Baker probably had to tell ESPN what he was doing -- since he was under contract with them. One of his friends told me Baker would have had some sort of penalty if he quit the network before the season ended.

Not surprisingly, he's going to work for ESPN through the end of the season.


at 11:26 PM Blogger Laura said...

I moan in agony. I would have so much rather had Mackanin. Any word on what will happen to him?

at 11:28 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brutal. Absolutely brutal.

at 11:32 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...


at 11:32 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh Lord, help us. :-(

[brian in middletown]

at 11:34 PM Blogger steve-o said...

One would think that Castellini would have caught wind of the negative perception people in this town have about Dusty.

If we don't see big money spent on free agent pitching this winter, I can't imagine tickets will sell well for next season.

at 11:34 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh Lord, help us. :-(

[brian in middletown]

at 11:34 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Source is the Reds.

at 11:34 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Goodbye GABP! My 32 employees and I will be going to Jacobs Field next summer after 24 years of going to Reds games and being a loyal customer. No longer! It is clear to me that this sad, sad organization has no regard for the fans at all and clearly have no clue how to make the Reds a winning team. But why am I not surprised. I don't think clueless Krivsky and Veggie Man can find their butts with both hands! Sad, Sad, day for Cincinnati baseball.

at 11:40 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Organizations shouldn't run a team based on what fans think. Fans put pressure on the Chargers to fire Marty Schottenheimer (sp?) and they did...think they regret that? There were a lot of fans in Cleveland that wanted Wedge gone..but they stayed the course and they're in the ALCS.

I don't get all the backlash against Baker. Granted, his Cubs stint didn't end well but he has a good track record. How about we wait and see how he does before we all call this the end of the Reds franchise?

P.S. People would have gone nuts if we kept Mackanin because of the "been there, done that" approach. The Reds were in a lose-lose situation here.

at 11:42 PM Blogger DonkeyOptionDizzle said...

wow, the negativity towards baker is ridiculous on this blog. it sucks getting a big name, proven winner as a manager. you guys are idiots!

at 11:42 PM Blogger unblogger said...

I wonder what will happen to these fans that say they are going to leave if the Reds become a contending team and make the Playoffs with Baker as manager.

DId any of these fans threaten to leave when Dan O'Brien was hired? That made much less sense, and was much more a sign that the Reds were not commited to winning.

Oh well, I guess some fans only will root the Reds as long as they are losing.

at 11:43 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wish I saw this news when I woke up tomorrow, instead of tonight. I'm sensing a night full of nightmares and void of sleep. What a crock of %$#@.

at 11:45 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is too bad the Reds are hiring a 3 time National League Manager of the Year. Someone that has been to the playoffs more times in recent memory than our Reds. People moaned and groaned about hiring another interim manager and management gets a "name". What were the Reds supposed to do, wait on Torre and LaRussa who may not be going anywhere or even if they were probably wouldnt come to Cincinnati? Girardi, one year and a losing record....that was the answer? This may be the best available, I think it is. Cant be worse than Boone, Miley, Narron, etc.....

Just get some arms to go with the "big name" manager....

at 11:48 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get a grip. Dusty is fine. He will do fine if they get some pitching. And I am sure your 32 employees will love Jacobs field. What a Idiot and no one really believes that you have any employees.

at 11:53 PM Blogger Dan H said...

Baker wasn't my first choice or second either for that matter, but... reading your quote from Aurilia on Baker I'm hoping for the best and I'll eat my words from past comments if Baker turns out to be the right man for the job. Next thing on the Reds agenda has to be pitching some how some way it has to improve. John, do you know the contract status of the Reds coaches from 2007?

at 11:55 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hide the pitchers from Dusty Baker.

at 12:00 AM Blogger Chris at Redleg Nation said...

I actually AM surprised that the Reds aren't forcing their Big Name Manager to get his rear end in to work. I guess they're good enough already, and can take some time off as an organization.

The good news is that we get to listen to Baker make an idiot of himself on national TV for a couple more weeks. After that, it's strictly local media.

at 12:03 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not expecting big things. I hope Krivsky will ultimately have the final say over what Baker is allowed to do. If Baker wants to run the pitcher out for 130 pitches, I hope Krivsky tells him no.

As for the person who says they had better spend money on free agent pitchers----oy! What have you been snorting? There is no free agent pitching to spend money on. Kyle Lohse...that's it. Been there, done that. It's trades you must be thinking of

at 12:04 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sick to my stomach, but what can I (or other Reds fans) we don't own the team and don't make those decisions.

John have you heard anything about who will round out the coaching staff? I hope at least Billy Hatcher is kept around. Also I know you said that Rich Aurilla said he really liked Baker have you heard what Brantley's opinion is on him?

Thanks for keeping up on this importants story for us John.


at 12:07 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not a good hire at all. Dusty and young players do not mesh. The Reds wanted a big name and Dusty is that, the problem is, he is a cheap replica of a big name manager. The Reds get Dusty at a bargain basement price. Dusty was anxious to manage again and I would bet the door was not getting knocked over with would-be suitors. His years at Chicago tell the story, poor at handling and developing talent and more improtatnly pitchers. Very disappointing.

at 12:10 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

You all need to chill out. You are all making it sound worse than it will be in reality. It will still come down to talent on the field. Anything else are secondary issues.

at 12:13 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worst. Possible. Scenario.

Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible.

at 12:18 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have put up with Dick Howser destroying the Big Red Machine, a losing decade in the 1980s, Marge Schott's escapades, Pete being banned, an egotistical GM in leather pants, relievers leaving the mound in flames, Adam Dunn failing to deliver in clutch RBI situations, Barry Larkin acting like a child instead of a team captain, Joe Nuxhall being dissed, inept manager like Bob Bafoon and Dave Miley, Junior being a walking MASH Unit, etc..., and "Crusty Faker" being named the manager of this team is the final straw!
I just OFFICIALLY became a Chicago White Sox fan...

at 12:24 AM Blogger Ashland ATeam said...

Anonymous at 10:34 is the epitome of what an awful fan is:

'I don't like what team A did... I'll jump ship to a better team... I'll come back when they're winning...'

From a true Reds fan: goodbye and good riddance.

I'll gladly welcome a 3 time NL manager of the year!

at 12:24 AM Anonymous Mike said...

We're all entitled to our opinions, and that's good. But I think we're jumping to conclusions with all the negativity. Let's give Dusty a chance and see what happens. It's a long off-season until March 31st.

at 12:25 AM Blogger Ashland ATeam said...

Anonymous at 11:18 -

My previous comments are to you too. Have fun in Chicago.

at 12:37 AM Blogger justafan said...

stop your hand wringing, and head shaking, and grumbling, Reds Nation. Finally, mgmt sees the larger picture--- with a team more talented than Arz, Colo, & SDiego. Mackanin was a nice guy, humble lil gardener. Narron was an "aw shucks" comformist (gag).Baker is a driver, he knows the details of the game. The man is outspoken & won't back off from a team's bad day or rough week. These players better get their act together for this guy-- he figures ya out quicker than Marvin Lewis or Bob Boone wishes they could. Fix the bullpen, let Baker lead the group, and get to work. Complainers on this one are: knuckleheads.

at 12:38 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

If i were GM...(or now maybe Jocketty)...

pick up guardado and dunn

let hatteberg go

move freel, keep hopper

try at all means to dump stanton somewhere by april 20

package hamilton and gonzo to say, la dodgers for say, chad billingsley, if la is dumb enough, that is. the point is, try to complete the 1-2 punch with harang. arroyo is a fine 3 because he can give us what we need. innings.

oh and slide a partially proven kepp at short.

btw, move bruce out to center yesterday. can you honestly see him flaming out?

homer bailey is the most pivotal player in 08. if he matures nicely, we gain a # 3 without paying lohse money for a # 5.5. he struggles, we lose 85. shearn, maloney, ez ramirez and cueto fight for 5.

belisle to the pen or to the farm.

pencil in weathers, burton and guardado. scour for 2 fresh arms. pray for progress from coot and mcbeth. pray for health for bray. dont count on any majewk.

i dont drink coffey.

lineup...brutal with deliberate speed

catcher(oh yea we need one of those too)


young harang

new righty

anon 24/7

at 12:44 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Apart from LaRussa and Torre, who has a better resume than Baker?

at 1:10 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm mostly just angry that we had to hire someone who had anything to do with the Cubs. As long as Dusty can shake the cursed dust of Wrigley Field off his jacket the Redlegs will be fine. For some odd reason I just have an excellent feeling about Dusty as manager. I can only hope that none of the idiots that are already criticizing Dusty come to any Reds games next year. In my book, none of them deserve to be Reds fans anymore. You may as well root for the Cubs if you're that stupid to begin with.

at 1:14 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Enough with the boo-hooing. Now it's time to look forward.

If you're at the news conference announcing Baker and you can ask him ONE legit question, what will it be?

Let's see what you got. . . .

at 1:18 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like 2007 is the last year our family will have season tickets.

I'm sure Homer Bailey's agent is already asking for a trade.

Ever think we'll see Griffey not slack off?

at 1:26 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 11:18 Dick Wagner destroyed the Big Red Machine, not Dick Howser.

Oh Lord Help Me.....Dusty Baker. Well Broccoli Bob, your big move just turned to crap.

at 1:27 AM Blogger Mike said...

The Dusty Baker decision can only be met with great skepticism. Given the Reds issues (pitching, pitching, pitching), why not bring PeteMac back? They can't be fixed overnight or even over the course of next season.

I will give Dusty a chance, but why bring in a guy who loves playing the vets when the Reds need to play their kids? If this team is going to do anything long-term, they have to develop Votto, Bruce, Bailey, Cueto, etc. Are we to believe Dusty suddenly likes playing young players?

Is Dusty Baker a good manager? Statistically speaking, yes. But he's absolutely the wrong hire for the Reds at this time. If the Reds are trying to become the 90's Bengals, it looks like they are succeeding.

at 1:50 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 10:48, you're right I don't have 32 employees I have 325 but only 32 were interested in going to see the Reds the last few years.
Coming from someone who is probably a fry-cook at Burger King., I take your comment as a complement. And lets see, the Indians are in the play-offs and where are the Reds? Jacobs Field is a beautiful park and if folks like you are what we would have to put up with at GABP, I am happy we are going to be driving North next summer. Just stay in your mobile home and get all excited about the Baker hiring. You and the others who support this decision deserve him. The GOOD fans (the majority)in Cincinnati deserve much better.

at 1:58 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

The common refrain. . . .

But why bring in a guy who loves playing the vets when the Reds need to play their kids?

To go baseball-reference.com, look at the roster of each Baker-managed team, and tell us who, on those rosters, were young, deserving players whose careers amounted to anything did not get playing time because of Baker?

Cubs went to the playoffs with Patterson, Prior, Zambrano and Choi --all under age 25--as major contributors.

Remember: It's up to the GM to supply players, and depending on your farm system there might not be any young players worthy of playing. Before this year, what young players came up through the Reds' system since 2000 that you can honestly say deserved substantial playing time and didn't get it?

Another Baker stigma fueled by the blind, the jaded, the uninformed and the Google illiterate.

at 2:09 AM Blogger Ashland ATeam said...

Two further comments, and then I'm done until tomorrow:

- Don't we think that Krivsky and Castellini have asked all the questions we have? Baker knows the situation he's coming into, and he knows how he needs to manage. He's not retarded.

- Anonymous at 12:18, I've got a comment for you that I've already passed along twice:

Goodbye and good riddance. We real Reds fans will enjoy their next championship - hope you feel good about yourself now that you're jumping ship.

at 2:40 AM Blogger George said...

I remember always feeling secure that with Baker managing the Cubs, they would never get anywhere. I've never felt more of an urge to use profanity in a post in my life. But I wont. Just know, that I am thinking of the foulest words imaginable. Bye, bye Reds. I'm spending my money elsewhere. Idiots.

at 3:27 AM Blogger George said...

So John, the source is the Reds, yet the ESPN article does not say it was a club source. No one is speaking to you or the other beats from the club, yet you know the source is the Reds? I'd look into this--you all may have a lot of egg on your faces tomorrow.

at 7:20 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

are yall serious the guy has won 3 manager of the years awards what else do yall want i wasnt a huge dusty baker fan in fact i really dont like him too much at all but im a bigger reds fan more than a baker fan so i dont care who the reds hire as long as they win if the reds had hired pete everyone would be on here sayin well they said they were gonna get a big name and we just got an interim manager again give the guy a break yall throwin in the season before the guy has coached one game it cant get any worse for us baker could turn it around juss let him coach one game before everyone says how big of dissappoiment the hire was and as far as krivsky i dont like him to much but thanks to him we have a number 2 starter in arroyo and a future all star in brandon phillips sure he has made some mistakes and thats what he gets heat for but he also has bought talent to the reds so he deserves better than what some people give him for all those people that say well they aint buying season tickets next year cuz of the manager you are def not a reds fan and im glad your not buyin tickets or the other guy with him "employess" thats goin to jacobs field go for it bandwagon all you want with the indians im stickin with the reds like a TRUE reds fan would do go reds dusty you got 3 moy awards i trust you dont listen to idiots on this post

at 8:35 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder how many candidates the Reds really interviewed? Do you have any further insight on this John?

Baker would not have been my first choice, but hopefully he has learned from his prior mistakes. Not sure I would have given him a three-year contract, but let's let him run with it and see what he can do. He is a play-off caliber manager.

at 8:42 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just another retreaded manager that had many serious issues during his years in Chicago. If you have ever listened to Baker speak you will find him to be somewhat of a dullard and inarticulate.

There were dozens of candidates including many bench coaches that were far superior to Dusty Baker

Even Pete is far more intelligent, articulate and capable

I am sure that Ken Griffey will now be thrilled as Baker will let him slack off as long as Ken Likes him.

Sorry gang..I am real reds fan and this is the worst possible hiring that you can imagine for this particular team.

Listen to ESPN and observe Mr Baker. Dumb and dumber

I am tired of this little
storm trooper Wayne Krivsky and his rude manner and it appears that Bob Castellini has no idea.

I remember the days when we were proud of our baseball team.

I now am sorry that we approved the tax revenue for both ballparks even though I was once an ardent supporter.

The Bengals and the Reds have long term leases and this city should rise up and make these owners put winning teams on the field as they promised us they would

at 8:42 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets all listen to Mr. Redlegs. He is clearly the master of everything baseball and our ideas and opinions don't mean anything. He has a right to his opinion, but so do we without being made to feel stupid. I don't claim to be an expert but a friend from Chicago called after hearing the news on ESPN and I quote " By August the fans in Cincinnati will be wishing that the Reds hired anyone else, even Bozo the Clown to manage the team, Oh wait! They just hired him" close quote. If even half of the things he told me about Baker are true, we as Reds fans are in for a long bumpy ride. I HOPE I am wrong and it is just my humble opinion, but I feel like the Reds are making a very big mistake in hiring this man as manager for the next 3 seasons. But it is clear that Krivsky and Castellini could care less about what the people who pay for the stadium and buy the tickets think. I hope they know what they are doing. I for one am real tired of all the losing seasons and empty promises. I still think Pete deserved a better fate. I wish him the best.

at 8:55 AM Blogger Jeffrey said...

I am not going to bail to another team but this hiring is a joke. They won't get rid of griffey from dragging them down so they hire this boat anchor. I may burn my reds hat in effigy. Castellini is worse than Uncle Carl ever was.

at 9:01 AM Blogger Dan H said...

My one obvious question to Baker would be- Dusty, after a quick look at your pitching staff, what is the single most pressing need (ex.bonafide closer, another 1 or 2 type starter, pitching coach) to make this staff competitive? My biggest concern with Baker, will he able to adjust his managerial style to the roster he will have to work with. And to all the naysayers, give the guy a chance and if you can't don't jump back on the bandwagon if they happen to contend next year. Remember, the NL Central is not the most strongest division in MLB.

at 9:09 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's official: Reds upper management doesn't know how to run a team. I've been a Res fan since '72, but no longer. Maybe he can't play Hamilton or Dunn because they weren't bred to handle the Cincinati heat.

I hope Mac ends up at Pittsburgh. If so, that's my team, at least temporarily until Dusty is fired in 2 years.

at 9:20 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone just needs to chill out and see what happens. There is not one of us who can say for certain what is going to happen.

It's amazing it seems some are upset that the front office didn't take notice of what the fans wanted. It would be hard to because sentiment shifts faster in this town than a politician on a debate.

One person is going to take his 32 people and go to Cleveland? That's fine. Its 32 less drunk people not watching the game and cryin' about beer prices while getting hammered.

Another person wants see big money spent on free agent pitching this year? So you want more overpriced run of the mill pitchers on the team? Didn't have enough of Eric Milton did you? See Baltimore spent $40 million plus on their bullpen? See how much improvement they had? Didn't think you did.

People are now turning into fans of the White Sox? Good for you. You are moving on and we won't have to see our senseless dribble about baseball. But on the other hand we will miss chuckling at you.

So you are sure Homer Bailey agent is looking for a trade? Thats just too ridiculous to comment on.

at 9:23 AM Blogger Don said...

FYI...Leo Mazzone was let go by the O's just a few days ago.

at 9:29 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's the thing, Its quite possible that Baker has learned from his mistakes. We won't know until the end of the season next year. But we might be able to get some sort of clue on monday.

The next thing Bob might want to wrok on his Wayne's personal skills. There's no sense of having somone in the public eye being so inept of dealing with people. After that he might want to get someone to help Wayne identify pitching talent.

I am a weekday season ticket holder and will not be jumping ship because they didn't hire who I thought they should. Nothing worse than someone jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon.

Also I think we need to give the front office time to see if they are on the right track. Baseball is nothing like football where you can dramatically alter your team year to year and still win.

But this organization is in need of seriously drafting and upgrading their minor league pitching talent and program.

at 10:07 AM Anonymous CHEVIOT SPORTS AUTHORITY said...

Perhaps Dusty Baker is a good hire. Let us remember that Bob Castellini is the genius who hired Wayne Krivsky and gave Jerry Narron a contract extension. I am sure his judgement has improved since then but I guess we will all have to wait until Mr Redlegs enlightens us, or has he already done so?

at 10:20 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ashland A team, coming from someone from Ashland Kentucky (Hillbilly Heaven). What do you expect anon 10:34. And MR. Redlegs, what kind of a name is that. Have you spent too much time in the sun? From most of your comments it sure sounds like it. How does it feel when someone talks to you the way that you talk to others? You and others like you seem to think that you are the only people on this blog who have a clue about baseball. I for one am tired of all the name calling and back biting on this site. Is this the kind of Blog that you (John) and the Enquirer want? Is it not time to take control of it and get back to letting EVERYONE express their feelings without being torn apart by a few people that have nothing better to do then set on their computer and run other people down? I for one will find a blog where people can express their opinion without some so called expert telling them how dumb they are. Shame on all of you!I don't blame anyone who chooses to go see a team other then the Reds. I too am sick of all the losing and the ignorance of so many of the so called real Reds fans. The Reds organization is a disaster. Now go ahead and rip me apart. Does it make you feel better?


at 10:21 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess the biggest problem is that they'll be stuck with Pole as the pitching coach for another year

at 10:25 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is so sad. Everyone is talking about someone who is not even manged the reds.I think everyone should stip there crying intill at least Jan. By then maby we will know whos going to come back and play ball and whos not. Cincinnati fans are such babies. Just sit back and relax and give Baker a chance

at 10:29 AM Anonymous Mania said...

Baker is ok.
Remeber the St. Louis guy with his history (McGwire, 2Cansecos, Giambi and now that Ricky boy) Stay clean , play ball the right way.

at 10:31 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The question nobody has answered or even attempted to address is "Why did the Cubs fire Baker"?

If you lived in Chicago you'd know the answer, and now you will find out.

The only good news is that this will finally show what a true moron Krivsky is and he will be fired along with Baker.

"In Dusty We Trusty".

at 10:31 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Those of you who profess to be Reds fans for a thousand years, or now you're switching to other teams, or you're not going to spend another dime on this product . . . .

You were never fans. You're frontrunners. Bandwagoners. Whiners and complainers.

Either you follow your team or you don't. Through thick and thin. There's no in-between.

at 10:38 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who do you Reds fans think you are?

You are lucky anyone will manage your piece of crap team for any amount of money.

Why be so negative? You never fill your dinky ballpark, so who would care if you don't go to the games?

Get a life. Dusty is the one everyone should feel sorry for.

He took a AA job.

at 10:58 AM Blogger Mark T said...

Sometime during the Miley period, I decided I would switch my allegiance to the Oakland A's. I tried - it's like leaving your wife. For all that you might perceive as bad, she's still the girl you fell in love with. I'm stuck as a Reds fan - I hope the Dusty moves works out.

at 11:06 AM Anonymous Tim said...

I don't know if Baker was the best choice that either was or was going to be available to then or not, but the one thing I am enjoying through all of this is that we have not heard from Napoleon Brennaman either in the paper or on the radio. May the silence continue.

at 11:20 AM Anonymous mikec said...

OK. I don't like this decision one bit. But let's see how it plays out. As one person said, maybe Dusty has learned from his mistakes. God I hope so. Or else Homer Bailey could become Mark Prior. That's my biggest fear.

But there is a way around the problems with Dusty. You tell him: Votto needs to start 120 games unless he's hurt. Bailey is on a strict 100-pitch pitchcount. So is Cueto.

Again, I think this is a bad hire right now. But jumping ship to another team over it? Come on folks. That's just ridiculous. I don't like Dusty anymore than you do. But give the guy a chance.

at 11:21 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it rather amusing that many of the fans that support this hiring and are constantly telling everyone else how big of idiots we are for not supporting it can't even spell. Terri is right. When is this blog going to get back to letting everyone express their feelings about the Reds without some know it all telling us how dumb we all are. Stop calling each other names and talk baseball. It is much more interesting.I was always told that men who had to constantly run others down were trying to make up for their shotcomings in other areas. I bet you all drive big sports cars too!
Bottom line is that this hiring is a mistake. I look forward to reading what Mr. Redlegs and others are saying next September. Have a great day everyone!
Nancy T., Blue Ash

at 11:28 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know about others but I would never, ever switch my allegiance. I have been a Reds' fan since the 1950s and will always be a Reds' fan.

But I still believe hiring Dusty Baker is one more mistake in a long series of bad moves by the Reds.

"In Dusty We Trusty"!

at 11:34 AM Anonymous Sam said...

John, its probably been decided that Dunn's option will be picked up (and rightfully so ) , but do you think there is any influence that Dunn and Dusty have the same Agent Group? Thats assuming Dusty will have much say in personnel matters, which is a whole different issue in itself?

at 1:16 AM Blogger DrOptimism said...

Only 1 of you answered Mr. Redlegs's question?

Anyway, I'd ask Dusty B what he has learned from his past mistakes (and from his successes). If Baker wants specifics, maybe "growing younger players" and "leveraging a bullpen". (I'd kill to have a manager who uses his best reliever where he matters most & not 100% wedded to only closing games.)

Not enough redheads on this blog; I'm headed back to Trent's [still read ya, JF]

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