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From news of the day to news of the weird, John Fay provides a glimpse of what it’s like to cover the Cincinnati Reds

John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Quality gag

The rookies struck back with a gag of their own Tuesday.

A fake Toyota ad with a picture of Scott Hatteberg was hanging on the bulletin board Tuesday morning.

The copy read: “I’m Scott Hatteberg. I enjoy a nice glass of wine and brewing my own beer. What can I say, I’m cultured? That’s why I drive a Prius. They’re eco-friendly and Japanese.”

Hatteberg, one of the most sophisticated guys in the clubhouse, took it well. The culprits?

“My protégés (Jay) Bruce and (Joey) Votto,” Hatteberg said. “I told them well done.”


at 5:03 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay Bruce and Joey Votto need to be on this team. Not only do they have an immense amount of talent, but they bring a positive and relaxed attitude to the locker room. With these two guys leading the way, the Reds have a great future.

at 5:18 PM Anonymous NVreds said...

Nice one I like this. that yankees/crystal prank is insulting to the game IMO.

My favorite was when dunn brought hopper a pair of pants like the ones they wore in joe morgan's days. then he stole his regular pants and made him wear the ones 4 sizes too small for the game (he changed back late in the game). Watching him on first adjusting his pants uncomfortably had my sides splitting, he also had to adjust a few times while batting. easily the best I've ever seen, way better than the kendrick joke.

at 5:20 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi John, have you heard anything else about the kid from the Dominican? I am still surprised that the Reds haven't given this more pub.

at 6:26 PM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

Didnt Pete Rose and Johnny Bench put Davey Conception in the dryer one spring training?

at 6:57 PM Blogger John Fay said...

Davey got in the dryer on his own to get out of a slump. The gag occurred when someone turned it on.

at 7:41 PM Blogger NVreds said...

nice, thats pretty funny too.

why would u get into a dryer to kill a slump?

And put this guy in the hall, he was tops for his position in his era. SS is an undervalued especially the def+off ones, they were rare.
john, it's up to the vets committee now right?

at 8:03 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

In Hatteburg's defense.....at $3.50 a gallon, that makes him ahead of the curve.

Of course I do catch a bunch of crap about my Prius from my buddies with 4WD V8 monster trunks.

My Prius saves me $150-$200 dollars a month (@$3/gal gas), and got me a ~$1000 bucks on my taxes this year.

at 11:19 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey John,

Did you know Hatteberg read your blog? I'm convinced that Anon 7:03has to be him, and talking about Dunn's truck too!

I read your blog everyday. Thanks for the constant flow of information.

at 11:44 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey John,

Didn't Davey do that in Chicago @ Wrigley?

at 11:50 PM Blogger kingseyeland said...

John, if you can get a pic of that ad, that would be awesome.

at 11:59 PM Blogger BATSFAN said...

So when are the reds going to make some cuts we got like 62 people right?

at 12:09 AM Blogger John Fay said...

Do not have a picture of the fake ad. I would think cuts are coming tomorrow.

at 12:22 AM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Not alot to report in Reds land, Huh?

I see Mr.Fay you Think Stanton is a lock for the bullpen,I would Imagine because of his lofty contract.You also think if Volquez is not starting,he's in the bullpen.Where does Homer Bailey fit in in your observation's.Does he have a chance of becoming a bullpen pitcher to gain seasoning,if not starting or his he sent down to Louisville?

at 12:27 AM Blogger Dave from Louisville said...

Dude, I got a Prius and Anon7:03 is speaking the truth. It's good to know we Reds fans are such a cultuired group.

at 1:15 AM Blogger ankurv5 said...

Haha, why would Hatteberg post and spell his name incorrectly? Quality prank. If Bruce and Votto make the team together, I think this team would have a chance to win because of chemistry a la 1999. If you're having fun, you're playing better. Scientific fact.

at 1:39 AM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Team Chemistry is huge,I agree.

"The have more talent,but we have a better ball TEAM".

A quote by Cincy's own Todd Benzinger;1990 World champion Redleg 1st baseman

at 3:02 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

ankurv5 said...I think this team would have a chance to win because of chemistry a la 1999.

I admit that I don't know much about that 1999 team (I live in Norway and 1999 was pre-internet for me.) But I know that the 1999 team didn't do squat to follow-up their 1999 season. I believe we have to go back 3 decades to find a team with which we can compare these kids - the 1968-1969 Reds.

I've said it before - this (2008) team reminds me more and more of the pre-Big Red Machine Cincinnati Reds.

God help the NL Central - and the National League - if these kids are as good as they seem to be, and if this team gels.

I'm getting jittery. Let's wind the clock to Opening Day and get this party going!

Gary Maloy, Norway

at 8:22 AM Blogger JackBlueAsh said...

I have always been a strong advocate for team chemistry. All teams have pranksters and play practical jokes . This is not new

Yet,I would not be comparing this team to the Big Red Machine.Not a single game has been played

at 8:26 AM Blogger Kyblu said...

I can see the young aces and faces going to Louisville (just an hour and twenty mins. down the road)to work without everyone looking over their shoulders. It would be a cast of future all stars and give all of them a chance to win big at Louisville. The front office can keep tabs on them, bring those they want up at a slower pace and keep the rookies with a positive approach to their future with the Reds.

at 8:35 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chris from Indiana
John I am curious as to what you think may happen in the bullpen with the lefties. Merker, Stanton, Bray and Affledt if he does not take a starting spot and I don't think he will. I like Merker over Stanton for a lot of reasons, Bray is the next coming when healthy and Affledt has the experience. Do you think they keep 4 lefties in the pen or does Bray go down because Stanton's contract straps the Reds?

at 10:05 AM Anonymous Bob Loblaw said...

John already said Stanton was in, which is unfortunate, but probably true. Bray will probably start the year on the DL and do a rehab assignment in Louisville, and hopefully can replace Stanton when he undoubtedly gets rocked early this year.

at 10:33 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob Loblaw, LOL! Arrested Development is/was hysterical.

at 11:14 AM Anonymous PresidentJohnAllenJr. said...

I would think a trade wiil happen be opening day. How about Blanton for Freel, Bailey and Coffey? Blanton could join Harang, Arroyo, Cueto and Volton in the starting rotation. No lefty but a good rotation. There is a roster crunch and a trade would make sense for the Reds plus opening up roster spots for other players. Any Comments?

at 11:36 AM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Freel & Coffey are ezpendable,Bailey not as much.At this moment,the reds are trying to win now.So, yea that make sense to me.

Bailey's stock is decreasing though.The reds have a lot of time & hope put in this young man.I just think a lot of other ballteams will not be that intrested in Bailey at this point.Of Course we have the Great Dick Pole(LOL) to help the young man through his troublesWhy did Dusty Keep this guy on his coaching staff,NO IDEA.Proalbly WK idea.Wasn't the problem Pitching last season, micro managing(Narron), & clutch hitting.Yet Pole & Jacoby are rehired.


at 11:40 AM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

I tend to believe Blanton's peripheral stats would not translate to much success in the t-ball field known as Great American Ball Park. Unless your like Paul Daughtery who seems to think stats are the evil doings of a demonic being, then I think you might understand where I am coming from. Wins are not indicative to how good a pitcher is (in my opinion). His road/home splits are just astounding. On the road hitters bat .304 against him with and era of like 5.11. He benefits greatly from playing in the entire hemisphere he pitches in when at home. I do not see a smooth transition from Oakland to GABP.

Feel free to rip this post and my character to tiny little shreds.

at 11:58 AM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

It just boggles my lil mind that people actually expected Homer Bailey to be the next Roger Clemens (pre-roids...i mean b-12)as soon as he was called up. The kid is only 21 years old. Give him a chance. (Some will argue he has his chance. seriously?...) I'm amazed that his pitching coaches haven't tried to correct the flaws in his mechanics (which cause him to leave the ball up in the zone). They share just as much of the blame as Bailey...heck...the deserve most of it.

at 12:05 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would tend to believe the coaches know better than us as to why Homer does not have command of his pitches

You are assuming that there is a flaw in his mechanics

at 12:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

wins are not indicative on how good a pitcher is? now thats funny

a good pitcher may have a bad streak, or even a bad year, yet inevitably wins will show how good the pitcher actually is

Take Harang..he played for the same rotten ballclub that everyone else did ..yet hes a good pitcher and he wins

at 12:15 PM Blogger BATSFAN said...

Any news john on the tranaction wire?

at 12:18 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

At 6'4" Homer should be throwing more on a downhill plane than what he is. He is missing high in the zone which would lead me to believe that there is a flaw(s) in his mechanics (early release). You don't miss the strike zone for no apparent reason. There's always a reason and for most pitchers it's mechanics.

at 12:21 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

42 wins for Blanton last three season but his road/home splits are terrible. Wins are not everything. I am just astounded that nobody seems think era, whip, opponent batting average, road/home splits, etc. don't mean anything.

The Harang reference is just terrible. He has very good peripheral stats to accompany his w's.

at 12:24 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would assume the coaches know more than us and certainly do not want bailey to fail

Wins over the course of a pitchers career will determine his legacy

at 12:28 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

Wins do not tell the entire story. Could it be they are a product of the system?? (a high powered offense that bails out a pitcher who has an era of 5) That's not the case for blanton, but still.

at 12:28 PM Anonymous Red Faced said...

Peter, I could not agree with you more. Mechanical adjustments are difficult for some guys to make and often times you'll see a guy make the proper adjustment only to fall back into his old bad habits the next inning. These types of changes are just unnatural feeling to them and until they make it habit you'll see them falling back into their old ways.

Cueto seems to have his mechanics down. He works quickly, has a smooth delivery and gets good results. Bailey talks to himself alot, appears to be taking his time often, has no rhythm and his results are less than effective. My bet is he's having to make a point to tell himself every pitch what he's supposed to be doing mechanically. Hopefully he gets it down before the end of spring.

at 12:31 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

wins over the course of an entire career will determine the legacy of any pitcher..


at 12:40 PM Blogger NVreds said...

wins are an overrated stat. Harang should have had 18-20 wins the last 2 yrs the way he pitches, yet the park, run support, and the bullpen all have prevented that. all those factors determine wins along with the pitcher. ERA & QS are better stats

wins say something, but they are way overrated.

at 12:44 PM Blogger Kurt said...

In Homer I trust. He is rated in the top 10 of Baseball of America. So there has to be something there right, unless those scouts have no idea what they are talking about. He is 21 and still learning. Here is Homers numbers for his first year 9 games 4-2 with a 5.76 era. Not good, but not a reason to give up on him. He has great talent; can he bring it all together? If we went by what he has done in his first year then we would have to do the same for the following pitchers in their first few years.

Tom Glavine
9g 2-4 5.54 era
34g 7-17 4.56

John Smoltz
12g 2-7 5.48
29g 12-11 2.94

Greg Maddux
6g 2-4 5.52
30g 6-14 5.61

Curt Schilling
4g 0-3 9.82
5g 0-1 6.23

16g 5-4 4.83
Split season Reds: 9g 4-3 5.28, A’s: 7g 1-3 5.34

I'm not saying Homer is on the level of these guys or will ever be, but if we went by their numbers in their first few years, we would have traded them or gave up on them like people say to do with Homer all the time. Smoltz is the only one to show improvement in his second year. Homer will be fine and stop expecting him to win 20 games with an era below 1.00. He will be fine and with Baby Pedro Martinez (Baby Pedro) aka Cueto and Baby Zambrano (Baby Z) aka Volquez the future of the Reds rotation could be great.

Go Reds

at 12:47 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

if a pitcher is good he will do well in most ballparks most of the time over the course of his career

wins are not overated stats for a starting pitcher..that is unless you accept mediocrity which has been the case for this team and its fan base

harang was 32 and 17 over the past two years..a winning record indicative of his skills

no need to microanalyze

cueto has not pitched a real game in the major leagues ..too early to tell

..the pitching coaches know a heck of alot more than any blogger and I feel that they want Bailey to succeed

at 12:50 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

Bullpen and run support are two other factors that I failed to mention that just further strengthen my argument. Thank you nvreds. Agreed, Harang, along with a good bullpen, should have had 18-20 wins last season. And Arroyo was the unlucky recipient of cold bats and inherited runners scored far too many times.


Let's hope Voltron doesn't become a headcase like Zambrano!

at 12:50 PM Blogger NVreds said...

after watching bailey I am convinced this kid isnt ready. I saw a lot of good things, the command of his heater was much improved, he wasn't afraid to throw it inside (this is rare for a 21yr old w/93+). I don't know what that change/screwball thing was but that pitch was nasty, he needs to work on using that. His curve is way too big, which I've heard brantley and welsh say needs shortening because when he hangs it (and he hung it a ton the other day) its dangerous. welsh was saying he strides so far from the rubber he loses that downhill advantage people were talking about on here. Can you change that? I'm not sure, thats tough to change.

the kids got some talent, but he has way more to work on than he's willing to admit. put him in AAA.

at 12:54 PM Blogger REddlegg in Colorado said...

Kurt-Good comparisons w/ the stats,with the exceptions of the Pedro & Zambrano references,that's a little pre-mature to be putting baby names on our young latin pitchers.I would hope they would build their own identities.

at 12:54 PM Blogger NVreds said...

I'm not saying wins are a bad stat, but people put way more importance on them than they should. they ARE overrated, I just gave 3 good reasons why, and I haven't heard any good reasons from anyone else.

at 12:57 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

harang.. even with a bad bullpen had 32 wins the last two seasons..this indicates he is a very good pitcher

arroyo..with the same bad bullpen and lack of hitting went 23-26 over the last two years..hes not a very good pitcher.. he has career numbers of 56-59

I guess arroyo has been unlucky his entire career with the three teams he played for

at 12:57 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...


I agree with you that Homer needs to go down to Louisville to tweek his mechanics. And yes, that pitch he threw to Posada to strike him out was nasty. It looked as if it was in the other batters box once it was caught.

I want to see Homer help this ball club. If that means going back to Louisville...so be it. I just don't want to see him traded away for Blanton. (If they weren't going to deal him for Bedard...why in the world would they trade him away for something less). I like the fact that Baker stays positive. I've been on Kid Texas' bandwagon since he was drafted. I'd hate to see him expended after not even seeing what he has to offer after some seasoning.

at 1:00 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

nv reds all pitchers have a bad year or a bad couple of months etc.. yet over the course of a career a good starting pitcher will have a good win loss record.

point end of point if u dont follow this I am sorry

at 1:03 PM Blogger Kurt said...

Red- yes it probably a bit pre-mature, but being compared to them is not a bad thing. If they match what those two have done, then the reds will be in good shape for a few years to come. Let’s hope they do or the reds will have to keep getting people like Josh fogg, Eric Milton to complete the rotation and nobody wants that.

Peter - Baby Z does have some Zambrano fire in him, as long as he doesn't lose concentration like Zambrano does he will be ok. A little fire in a pitcher that throws hard is always a good thing. Don’t want anyone digging in at the plate.


at 1:03 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...


First of all, Harang is a superior pitcher than Harang. Plain and simple. Harang also had better run support (5.87 compared to 4.61 that Arroyo had). Put those two factors together and Harang is going to have more wins. And I do not have any figures, but if memory serves correct, Arroyo got the shaft from the bullpen on more occasions that Harang.

at 1:04 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

its early in preseason..

nobody has to go anywhere..

fans on this blog that all of a sudden proclaim be pitching coaches need to calm down

Homer Bailey pitched fine at the end of last season..you keep sending him down to AAA u will ruin him

at 1:06 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...


I love that Voltron has some fire in him. The Red's need a starter who goes on the bump ready to bust up hitters and let them know who's in charge. I just don't want to see him have mental breakdowns. From what I hear Cueto has a fire within also that he isn't afraid to show.

at 1:09 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

PN you are microanlyzing I am looking at end results..neither of us are wrong ..

yes Harang is a superior pitcher to arroyo and his win loss record clearly indicates this

this bullpen shafted everyone last year as did the hitters. No starting pitcher was immune

arroyo has been inconsistent his entire career with 3 different teams .His failing last year was not due entirely to our bullpen

at 1:10 PM Blogger NVreds said...

your putting words in my mouth, as usual, I'm not saying you ignore wins completely, thought i made that clear. If you've got a lot of career wins, your a good pitcher, I'm not arguing that.

harangs a better pitcher than some guys with the same amount of wins, this you probably agree with. that means there are other factors, ignoring them is somewhat short-sited. by your logic jeff francis was a better pitcher last yr, while hes good, hes not better than harang.

at 1:11 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Harang and Arroyo have the same ERA and WHIP over the last 4 years, the same time they became full time starters.

4.06 and 1.26 I believe

Arroyo is NOT a bad pitcher

at 1:13 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

I don't recall calling Arroyo a bad pitcher. Harang is just a more superior pitcher. Especially in the here and now.

at 1:13 PM Blogger NVreds said...

macroanalyzing is just as bad as microanalyzing. I thought you hated stats?

at 1:13 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

peter lets not start attacking other bloggers.. you have absolutely no idea as to what Baileys problems are..the pitching coaches do

nv reds again..over the entire course of a career..check out winning records of Sandy Koufax, Warren Spahn, Steve Carlton, Nolan Ryan , etc

at 1:15 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

arroyo is not a bad pitcher..he is what his record suggests

at 1:17 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Harang, Arroyo, Belisle, Cueto and Volquez sounds pretty good to me.

The question is, who's gonna fill the final 3 or 4 bullpen slots. If Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Stanton are locks, who else?

Affeldt is in, and so is Bray if healthy, but what about Bailey, Coffey, Majewski and Fogg?

My early bets are on Bailey and Fogg there. I think the 07 Reds would bring Roenicke and Mercker along, but with all the competition, it seems less likely every passing day.

at 1:19 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Jack, at 11:57 AM you said arroyo was a bad pitcher. Change of heart?

at 1:20 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

I only call them as I see them. You make the outrageous argument about games attended. Over...and over...and over...and over...and over again.

I do know what Bailey's problem is. He misses high in the zone because of faulty mechanics most likely. Anybody with a pair of functioning eyes can see this. What the exact problem in his mechanics is I am not sure of. My guess would be an early release and/or not fully utilizing his tall frame to get that downhill plane.

All those pitchers you just named had great peripheral stats to go along with their W's. I don't know what you were trying to prove.

at 1:21 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

arroyo..with the same bad bullpen and lack of hitting went 23-26 over the last two years..hes not a very good pitcher.. he has career numbers of 56-59

can you read ?

at 1:23 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

No, I'm just a scribe actually, but I do have a translator who reads for me and they're telling me you said arroyo "isn't a very good pitcher". Somehow I think that's congruent to saying, "he's a bad pitcher".

at 1:23 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

PN.. I have not type a single thing about attending games on this post

its early in preseason ..no need to start sending anyone down anywhere

common sense would suggest that the coaches on this team know baseball better than us and are more capable of dealing with homers issues

at 1:25 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

24/7 i would suggest to you that the record suggests he is not a very good pitcher,,at the very least inconsistent..which we all know he is

a bad pitcher? I dont know

at 1:26 PM Blogger NVreds said...

those are all very good pitchers and they compiled a good amount of wins. they deserve credit for that, that still doesnt prove you right.

even you yourself said that our bullpen shafted our pitchers last yr, thats some wins left off the board, thanks that pretty much proves my point.

at 1:27 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

His record suggests he is not dominant. Not very good? Far from the truth.

at 1:28 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

nv reds one season does not make or break a pitcher.. over the course of a career most good starting pitcher have a good winning percentage

do you understand this

at 1:29 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

24/7 i love arroyo and hes joy to watch pitch..

sorry fellow his record is below .500 and does suggest hes not a very good pitcher..certainly not a number 2 on most teams

at 1:29 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

Arroyo is not a very bad pitcher either. He's a decent 3rd or 4th starter. But given what we have at the moment he is our number 2. And we get it. Both Harang and Arroyo had the same bad bullpen. That still doesn't change the fact that Arroyo was plagued with bullpen implosions moreso than Harang. If I had the time or desire I would collect figures to validate this (heck...or even disprove it. I'm just going by memory). Maybe someone else would do the honor of doing this.

at 1:31 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

I don't even think the bullpen implosions have been the biggest factor concerning Arroyo. Run support, for games at a time both in 06 and 07 cost him dearly.

at 1:33 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Arroyo is a #3, and will slot there next season if Cueto or Volquez shine this year. I'll take Arroyo over Lilly any day.

at 1:34 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

Agreed. But the bullpen certainly destroyed a handfull of good outings.

I'm hoping with the changes in the pen and a more consistent offense, Arroyo will chalk up 12-15 W's.

at 1:35 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

24/7 research his record with all 3 teams he played for. the last two years were not an anamoly..

Josh Fogg, even though we love the name, has a better career winning record than arroyo and he is comepeting for a number 4 or 5 slot

at 1:40 PM Blogger NVreds said...

good pitchers will earn more wins, thanks for the highlight. of course they will get more wins because they put themselves in the position more often to get wins.

doesnt mean Im not right, there are wins they got they didnt deserve, and there are wins their bullpens blew, there are wins they got when they pitched badly, just like everyone else.

and please stop with the comments like "can you read?" thats a petty way to try and win an argument.

at 1:41 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

I have to go but this is where I fundamentally differ from most bloggers on here. You three defend mediocrity and marginal play because you most likely have become accustomed to it.

Arroyo simply aint a real good pitcher nor has he been with any team
Why defend him or make excuses?

nv reds i am not trying to win any argument. Respected STARTING PITCHERS will have winning records.

bye boys

Bye boys

at 1:56 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

Anyways NVreds, what pitchers do you see making the cut?

at 2:00 PM Blogger NVreds said...

its early and the rest of the spring will tell us more but:


volquez could beat fogg and still start in the pen, which would be fine, I think fogg would be great trade bait later on

I'm really high on cueto I think he may be our future #2

bailey needs to work on some things, mostly cutting walks and his curve and further development of that nasty change, then I want him up here.

at 2:01 PM Anonymous redsfanwoody said...

If anybody cares.....I got my tickets today and the are looking pretty sweet. There is one picture of the Reds HOF on each ticket. Except Opening Day which as 132nd Opening day things going on.

As far as the argument about win/loss record, I tend to side with you have to look at all the factors at play. Example Look at Matt Cain stats from last year. What would have been his record on a better team?

But then you look at Brandon Webb who won 18 last year with the D'backs offense. So the record matters,just not as much as you'd might think.

at 2:05 PM Blogger NVreds said...

woody - "So the record matters,just not as much as you'd might think."

thats exactly what I've been trying to say (well more than try, its what i did say), good point about the Dbacks offense

at 2:06 PM Anonymous Red Faced said...

I'll add my two cents to the Arroyo discussion. He's not a bad pitcher. The bullpen did hurt him more last year than Harang, basically because Arroyo throws fewer innings than Harang. The Reds bullpen had more opportunities to blow the lead for Arroyo than Harang as a result. Another thing that happened last year was that Arroyo often got pulled while in the middle of an inning with men on base. Harang often finished his inning and the bullpen would start the next inning with no runners on base belonging to Harang. We all know how badly this bullpen was last year. We all know how bad they were at allowing inherited runners score. The bullpen cost both pitchers wins and hurt this team considerably, they just hurt Arroyo more because they pitched more innings in his starts. This fact does not make Arroyo a bad pitcher but the fact that he can't go as deep in the game as Harang, gives up more BB's and more hits makes him less of a pitcher than Harang. I don't think there is anyone here that would debate that fact.

Arroyo pitched about one inning fewer than Harang last year per outing. In 34 games that gives that lousy bullpen plenty of opportunities to blow leads.

I personally expect things to be much better this year in this regard and Arroyo will have a better record as a result.

at 2:09 PM Blogger 24/7 said...

I think Bailey has work to do, but it's hard to cut him and send him to AAA if it means Majewski or Coffey won't be there. I'd like to see the Reds have a little faith for once and put Cueto and Volquez in the rotation and Bailey in the pen. I think Cueto could be a co-ace with Harang. Just dreaming, but tri-aces with Volquez in 09 or 10? It's just spring training, but these guys look GOOD. And the Reds are overdue. It's our turn to have a Cole Hamels/Tim Lincecum/Yovani Gallardo type stud come in and dominate.

at 2:13 PM Anonymous Red Faced said...

Using the same bullpen argument one could easily debate that Harang would have received much more consideration for the Cy Young had he not been on a team with a lousy bullpen. Other factors that also contributed over the past two season where the poor defense and lack of offense with runners in scoring position.

at 2:28 PM Blogger NVreds said...

stubbs was the pick right before lincecum, kills me......

I guess i feel like it would be more harmful for bailey if he pitches from the pen than if he goes to AAA. I think with his fire he would make it a point to work his way back to the bigs and that would be very beneficial to him. he doesnt have the control to be successful from the pen.

If volquez makes the rotation, I would be very happy. Actually I'm rooting for him. But i see the team putting it off a little.

I wonder if there are concerns about innings pitched for cueto.

at 2:40 PM Anonymous Red Faced said...

I'm having a hard time picking the rotation still myself. There is a lot more spring left thank goodness.

Right now you have to say that Harang and Arroyo are locks of course so we are looking at 3 open spots.

Cueto has looked the best (we get to see him again tonight) And although Volquez looked really good last outing his ERA for the spring is still higher than Baileys and Belisle's so I don't see him having done enough yet to earn a spot. Belisle and Bailey both were very lucky their last outings, they very easily could have given up another couple of runs.

Looks to me like Affeldt will definitely be in the bullpen so that leaves us with the following guys fighting for 3 spots with Cueto having a leg up on the others (pending tonight's outing):


One thing is for sure, the guys who come out of this group for those 3 spots are going to have to earn it. The next 2 weeks of spring are going to be interesting.

at 2:49 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dony think you trade Bailey for Blanton in any type of mix of guys. It wont take much for Bailey to be as successful as Blanton. Blanton is not top tier, has only had a few "good" seasons.

Bailey is still very young and will improve. The Reds just have too much invested to part ways now.

Blanton does not make the Reds the favorite in the central, let alone put them in the World Series. If he did, then by all means, trade away.

I know Bailey doesnt either, but hes young, cheap, and a pretty good arm.

I just dont think we need another slightly above average pitcher whos going to eventualy want alot of money.

Lets stick with the plan, coach up the young kids and keep running them out there, until they either get really good or until youre sure they wont.

The reds arent winning the series this year, so lets see what we have, (or dont have) and go from there.


-Kevin in Ft Myers

at 2:58 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is the perfect example of Krivsky's poor talent judging skills and in ability to make a quality trade.. remember we dropped Cantu for this guy we now have Harriston Jr. (mitchell report roider) and Cantu is hitting .414 for The Marlins keep dreaming fans !!

at 2:58 PM Blogger LincolnLand Reds Fanclub said...

Classic Gag. I'm surprised Mercker wasn't a part of it.

at 3:05 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

Oh yea...that is a good joke Bruce and Votto pulled off.

at 3:08 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cantu is hitting .414?

I cant see that anywhere.

Career .273
2007 .252

OHHH, you mean in spring training,

How can Krivsky sleep at night?

Kevin in Ft Myers

at 3:10 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

cantu is gone

get over it

at 3:12 PM Anonymous Peter Nincompoop said...

He just thinks of Kid Texas, Voltron,and Cueto mowing down opposing hitters in the upcoming seasons. That's how he goes to sleep.

at 3:15 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...


Some guy named M. Griffin is hitting .667 for the Reds this spring!

at 3:19 PM Blogger NVreds said...

picture of hopper's gag:


friggin hilarious, watching the game made it way funnier

at 3:34 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

My point is we picked up valenuela and dropped Cantu instead of stanton or something we don't need, Valenuela was traded by the braves today to the mexican league for considerations gang!! what kind of major leaguer is worth a rule 5 that you lose a 26 year old with "potential" for that ends up being sold back and then traded to the mexican league for a bag of baseballs?? we pick up hairston as our utility guy who is a Mitchell report roider, and we lose Gonzo to injury Cantu could have easily been the infeild utility guy he is 6 years younger than Hairston and Roid free and hitting .414 with 4 doubles in spring.. ole josh is hitting .522 for the Rangers.. you guys continue having faith in Krivsky.. he can't judge talent for hoo ha in those moves and the Kearns lopez trade etc. name something outside of stealing phillips and Burton that has turned out well

at 3:51 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you dont make.

Bruce, Votto, Bailey, Cueto

All still Reds.

Think Krivsky didnt have offers?

Kevin in Ft Myers

at 3:54 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some guy named M. Griffin is hitting .667 for the Reds this spring!

And this means?....

at 3:56 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way,

Kriv did get a guy named Volquez in that Hamilton trade. Most people in baseball thinks he looks lights out this spring.

Or do you think we needed outfielders over pitching?

Kevin in Ft Myers

at 3:58 PM Anonymous redsneedpitching said...

arroyo, hamilton, keppinger, hopper, maloney, cordero, hatteberg, not trading bruce, votto, cueto for blanton, this duran kid, the conine trade (for castro), and you can't ignore the phillips trade as much as you are. volquez could turn out to be 150% worth it

he's also the guy who traded for liriano in minnesota

spring training stats don't mean anything

hairston will not make the club, he's there for depth, not to replace cantu, your freaking out over nothing

at 4:05 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hiring Dusty Baker aint half bad either.

Kev in FM

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