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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Monday, October 15, 2007

Baker on young players

Dusty Baker welcomes the chance to work with the Reds' young core.

"I'm excited about it. I've always wanted a young team. Everyone says, 'Dusty doesn't like young players.’ I was 19-year-player in the big leagues. How could I not like young players? I just didn’t have many young players to like. That followed me from the Giants. The Giants are still in the same situation, and I ain’t been there in five years."

You can see video from today's press conference here.


at 4:48 PM Blogger Sabo said...

Nice quote, maybe part of the reason he and San Fran. had a falling out.

at 4:57 PM Blogger Aaron said...

As I have said a bunch of times on various message boards with not one reply, is that in 03 Baker's top of rotation was Prior, Wood, and Zambrano all in their young 20s. Patterson and Choi received a ton of playing time. Joe Borrowski was a rookie closer. In his last year Murton was a starting rookie left fielder. I think this whole thing is a bogus argument. Cubs fans -- and Chicago in general -- tend to go berserk when things go bad. As a Bears fan I have watched them take innocuous comments out of context and create huge stories out of them. They have a number of "shock journalists" who unlike the normal sports reporter create negative stories, because there is no such thing as bad news they just one circulation and high ratings and people interested and tuning in. TO a degree this exists in the 'Nati but its not nearly as bad.. smaller towns have less journalists so there isn't that specialist who creates fiascos out of minor issues.

Baker is getting a bad rap, and much of it is because the hysterical Cubs fans have really tarnished his image with some false allegations. Sure he had a couple of bad seasons. So did Sparky. So does everyone... but in Chicago you start losing and they burn you at the stake.

at 5:31 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In Dusty We Trusty"!

at 7:20 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once again from Wrigleyville, speaking of the Chicago media, here is a link to Jay Mariotti's column.


Aaron you are correct, Chicago goes berserk when things go wrong. In fact Chicago goes berserk when things go right.

The Chicago media loved Dusty Baker when he arrived, and ran him out of town in the end. The only Dusty fan remaining was "Ronnie Woo Woo"...woo wooing his support for Dusty as he drove away in his Chevy Blazer.

The Cincinnati print media has certainly welcomed Dusty with open arms, just gauging by the continual appearance of articles chastising the fans for dissing Dusty.

Keep the famous rallying cry in mind and let's see how he does.

"In Dusty We Trusty"!

at 7:54 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, whatever happened to Hee Seop Choi, anyways? He was supposed to be a big deal, but he bounced around from the Marlins, Dodgers and Cubs then disappears completely. I think last I heard he went to the Red Sox organization

at 9:53 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like the hire.. Dusty Baker is a helluva Manager. As a long time Reds fan it was hard to like Dodger players, but Dusty was and is a class act. He would always take the time to sign autographs for the kids. He deserves this chance and lets see what he can. Sactown behind you Dusty!!

at 11:58 PM Blogger Aaron said...

Your link to the Mariotti article did not work but YES he was exactly the reporter I was referring to when I mentioned negative shock journalism... this guy crucified Greg Blache who was a good defensive coordinator for da Bears... he was guilty of taking quotes out of context and making straw man arguments. Mariotti is the worst of the worst in terms of integrity but of course integrity is not his goal... creating a fiasco is his goal, and on that level he is highly successful. Fortunately we have no equivalent in Cincinnati and if we did I'd recommend tar and feathers and a boat ride down the river with cement shoes.

at 8:46 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I gotta admit that I was one who jumped to negative conclusions on Dusty Baker based on very little fact mostly sound bites.I googled him pretty extensivly and He's looking better all time.He might end up a pretty good choice after all.

at 8:47 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dusty was a bad hire. Just wait. Three more years of losing ahead. What a waste of money!

at 9:03 AM Blogger spam.catcher said...

I the think Dusty hire is great, and does show a commitment to break from the past.

Now to extend that commitment to pitching, they should go out and hire Leo Mazzone. I really surprised that we haven't heard more about him in the blogs or on talk radio since he was let go by the Orioles. This guy was magic with pitchers for 17 years in Atlanta, and could really do a lot to help Bailey, Cueto, etc. have great years, even though they're young.

at 9:37 AM Anonymous Dan said...

Hey guys, you had Jay Mariotti in Cincy for a number of years @ the Enquirer. If my memory is correct, I think Bob Trumpy jacked him up against the wall in the WLW studios and threatened to beat the snot out of him for a couple of his typical BS cooments. He's a shock jock, just like Furman. The more you hate him, the more he loves it!

at 10:17 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry the link didn't work...you can go to the Sun Times home page


then click on Sports and on the right hand side of the page is a box with "Mariotti 24/7". The article is "No Red Octobers for Dusty".

Jay Mariotti is entertaining but you can't take his writing seriously.

at 11:19 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

i hate mariotti, i have never liked one single thing he says. i agree its all for shock value and thats pretty sad if all you have as a journalist is shock value.

at 11:52 AM Blogger Mr. Redlegs said...

Leo Mazzone is a lifelong Yankees fan and is believed to be headed there if Torre is replaced. And maybe even if he's not.

Mazzone is great. He really is. He has a terrific throwing program and comes from the Johnny Sain school of thought, which is top shelf.

But what young pitchers did the Braves ever develop outside of Glavine, Millwood and Mercker? Think hard. Look at all the young pitchers the Braves have dealt away who amounted to little, finding GMs to take the gamble because they believe the Braves have this great pipeline.

Does Rob Bell, Bruce Chen, Bubba Nelson and Jung Bong sound familiar? How about Matt Belisle?

And those are just the ones suckered onto the Reds.

Mazzone's specialty is reclamation projects. In Baltimore, the Orioles posted two of its worst ERAs in team history in Mazzone's two seasons. The Orioles have better young starting pitching than the Reds and they didn't make marked improvement.

Odd, Dusty Baker has this stigma among some of you about young talent when, in fact, when he was handed solid youngsters over the years they played. But Mazzone was handed tons of young, supposedly talented pitchers and the majority didn't pan out, but everyone thinks he's God because of Glavine, Smoltz (Tigers) and Maddux (Cubs).

That's not to say Mazzone isn't good. He's very good. I'm just saying you have one cockeyed perception because you don't look hard at the facts on Baker and rely on surface analysis (meaning, doofus fans); then you have another cockeyed perception on Mazzone without again looking a little closer.

at 12:13 PM Anonymous Brendan T. said...

Mariotti lost all credibility in that article when he called Harang a "decent pitcher". Last time I checked he dominated Little Z every time they faced each other this year.

at 12:58 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

Dusty was a bad hire. Just wait. Three more years of losing ahead. What a waste of money!

Sweet! Way to back-up your logic!

Do you know how much he's getting paid? Did you look at his all-time record of win vs. losses?

Nope. Instead, you 'anonymously' made a fool of yourself with illogical banter. Hop off the Hate-Train, bud!

at 1:15 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mariotti is more concerned about his "face time" on television Thats why he writes so crappy articles.

Best way to get info is through beat writers like John,Hal and Trent.

at 2:13 PM Anonymous Monclova Steve said...

Hey Rob 11:58 -- thanks a lot. I just read all the posts and was going to say the exact thing you did. You stole my thunder.
Isn't it great when someone hides behind "Anonymous" to make a statement, then BACKS IT UP WITH -- uh, nothing?

at 4:27 PM Anonymous Cheviot Sports said...

Thank you, Mr Redlegs for clearing that up about the Braves not being able to develop pitchers. How many division titles has Atlanta won in the 1990s and 2000s? They must have been doing something right. As for dumping crap on the Reds (Bubba & Bong) everybody does that. So what is your point?

at 4:32 PM Anonymous CHEVIOT SPORTS AUTHORITY said...

MR RED, thank you for clearing that up about the Braves not being able to develop pitchers. How many division titles have they won during the 90's and 2000s? They must be doing something right. As for dumping crap on the Reds, everyone does that. So what is you point?

at 5:24 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Robm you're a typical, uninformed, dreamer. Dusty's record was steroid-inflated, he stunk the last two years with the Cubs, and he is a very expensive hire compared to Mackannin or someone like Backman. So your argument is that we don't need the extra money we're paying to Baker to get better pitching?

at 5:26 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dusty is not worth the money. 3 more years of losing seasons ahead, at least!

at 8:15 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In Dusty We Trusty"!

at 11:09 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

all these dusty haters will be first in line for opening day tickets and playoff tickets

i am a reds fan in royals country - try living through that mess.

at 12:12 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not about hating Dusty. It's about hating losing. The Royals will have a better 2008 record than the Reds, so stop whining! Just sit back and enjoy Dusty!

at 4:23 PM Blogger RotoJeff said...

I have two concerns about Dusty:

1. An aversion to players who draw walks or otherwise focus on on-base percentage, because they clog the bases (http://tinyurl.com/2ukqcn)
(one of multiple instances of that quote).

2. There are instances where he's gone with the proven cipher on offense rather than take a chance with a young player - see the multiple dalliances with Neifi Perez, his instance on starting/playing the likes of Jose Macias, Todd Hollandsworth or Lenny Harris. In some cases the young player didn't turn out to be that useful, in other cases they might have given the chance. In 2005, in particular, Murton didn't get his chance until really late in the season - Hollandsworth managed to get 268 at-bats, Murton just 140.

His point about his teams not having too many good prospects is fair, though, especially in San Francisco.

I'm less concerned about the pitch count issue, at least as it applies to Harang and Arroyo. Bailey and Cueto, on the other hand, will have to be monitored carefully. This should be a really good test case for him

at 12:52 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

Robm you're a typical, uninformed, dreamer.

First off, my name is ROB not Robm. Learning how to properly spell and form correct sentences will help you in future arguments. Take a note of that!

Dusty's record was steroid-inflated, he stunk the last two years with the Cubs, and he is a very expensive hire compared to Mackannin or someone like Backman.

Steroid inflated? Where? With Bonds in San Francisco? Wasn't it 1993 where Dusty garnered over 100 wins? Bonds wasn't jacking 70+ homers and driving in 150 runs during that season, skippy. During that time, Dusty had good players besides Bonds that DIDN'T use steroids. His best players at the time were Bonds, Matt Williams, Will Clark, Robby Thompson, John Burkett, Bill Swift, and Rod Beck. All had stellar years that year.

So your argument is that we don't need the extra money we're paying to Baker to get better pitching?

Baker is making $3 million/year maximum with the Reds. If you can go out and take that $3 million and find a good quality starter or reliever, then you should be in the owner's box, my friend. But, fact of the matter is this...it's not going to happen. Eric Milton is gone from the team...that's $10.5 million free. It's quite possible that Stanton will be released (around $3 million yearly) and Freel will be traded (another $3 million yearly). Plenty of room for Dusty there and some quality pitching.

Your argument is moot and pointless, and I do believe that all the crap Dusty is getting here absolutely CAN'T be about 2 losing seasons. I do have to believe that race has something to do with this as well. it's rather obvious by the numerous anonymous posts saying we are going to having a losing record this year BECAUSE of Dusty, and using illogical test cases like the Kansas City Royals to back-up their ignorant bantering.

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