Reds add six players
From the Reds:
TODAY’S NEWS: Today the Reds claimed off waivers from the Baltimore Orioles OF Jeff Fiorentino, increasing their roster to 39 players...also today, the club agreed to terms on minor league contracts and invited to Major League spring training camp RHP Jim Brower, IF Jolbert Cabrera (pronounced HOLE-bert), IF Andy Green, LHP Adam Pettyjohn and IF Andy Phillips.
I talked to Wayne Krivsky today for my Sunday Insider -- it's going to be on Jay Bruce, thus the previous post -- I asked him if the Reds were in on talks with any of the remaining free agent starters.
"You can assume that," he said.
The two I mentioned were Jon Lieber and Livan Hernandez. The thing that signing either would do is move Matt Belisle back into competition for a spot. Right now, Belisle's pretty much guaranteed a spot. I expect Belisle to be better this year, but his ERA was 5.32 last year and he gave up 212 hits in 177 innings.
Of the guys signed Friday, Phillips is the one to watch. He played 61 games with the Yankees last year and hit .292 with two homers and 25 RBI. He is one of 21 players to hit the first of his major league career out. His went over the Green Monster in Fenway in Sept. 14, 2004.
posted by John Fay at 6:19 PM
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Post a Comment*The Reds won 12 of Belisle's 30 starts last year. If he can continue to improve and get that up to 16-18, that would make him a solid contributor to the rotation.
Wayne is such a warm, cuddly individual. He almost makes Bill Belichik look friendly.
The Fish officially signed Jorge Cantu to a minor-league deal worth $500K with $100K in incentives.
I still don't get why the reds cut him. Money?
Fiorentino, as a LH outfielder, doesn't make a lot of sense. Andy Phillips has a good shot as a RH 1B off the bench much like Conine was, but doesn't make up for the loss of Cantu. The pitchers are needed at AAA since Bailey, Volquez and Cueto will be with the big club from day one.
The Reds signed two players from Italy, Panerati and Pizziconi, and it is the former who has the higher ceiling. The 6-foot-1, 156-pound Panerati, who turned 18 in December, pitched for Italy in the World Cup in Taiwan, the highlight coming when he struck out Cardinals top prospect Colby Rasmus. Panerati had struggled a year earlier against Team USA at the IBAF World Junior Championship in Cuba. He was named the top pitcher at the European Junior Championships when he was 17, pitching 12 1/3 scoreless innings with 14 strikeouts. Panerati’s fastball currently tops out at 86 mph with some life, and the pitch should gain velocity as his frame fills out. His go-to pitch is his changeup, which sits in the mid-70s and tails away from righthanders. He also throws a curveball. Pizziconi turned 18 in October, and at 6-foot-2 and 165 pounds he is another slender Italian lefthander. His delivery has some deception and his fastball tops out in the high-80s, but his secondary stuff is rudimentary. (Ben Badler)
Good lord does WK sound condescending! Let's hope he proves Leo Durocher a sage even now...
Phillips could be the key to a deal, don't you think? A Phillips and Votto R/L combo on the right side could free up a trade of Hatteberg for more pitching...
i also can not believe that cantu signed with marlins for only 500k. Im really thrilled we let him go so that we could sign the guy from the winter meetings that I have heard '0' about since then. All that jorge needed was a supportive club, with good young players around him. Sound familiar? I feel like he will be missed, and krivsky will regret that later on.
i also can not believe that cantu signed with marlins for only 500k. Im really thrilled we let him go so that we could sign the guy from the winter meetings that I have heard '0' about since then. All that jorge needed was a supportive club, with good young players around him. Sound familiar? I feel like he will be missed, and krivsky will regret that later on.
The Reds can add 12 players it wont matter. Until Griffey plays out his contract and frees up 12 million..much will stay the same here.
Griffey when he does play has become average defensively. Along with Dunn this makes for some serious issues in the outfield
Its a team sport, this team plays with a nonchalant attitude..and Dusty Baker if anything will add to that
As I have stated before, middle relief is an issue on this team and aside from bloggers like Redsfuture, Mikeic etc claiming and hoping the relievers will be better, I see no improvement in this area
What loss of Cantu Redsfuture..the guy never played? You have some inside source telling you that Bailey, Volquez and Cueto will be with the big club?
Enjoy your hoping and wishing. Aside from Cordero..there is not a single addition this offseason that will help this club. You can quote stats and past experience all ya want
Like Mr Brown of our
Bengals, I don't think that Wayne really knows what he is doing.
Respectfully Jack in Blue Ash
Right now, the Reds are counting on Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo and Matt Belisle for the first three spots in the rotation. The last two spots would be determined by competition among Homer Bailey, Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto and Matt Maloney.
THAT IS A RECIPE FOR A 4th Place finish in the Central!
Hello, McFlyKrivsky?
Don't you get the feeling that even the lower tier of starters in Japan would be better than half of the Reds current starting rotation (penciled in)?
Cantu signed with the Marlins for $500K?
What MORONS WK and BC truly are!
UGH!
Letting Cantu go is the one Krivsky move I just don't get.
I mean basically you sign a guy like Phillips to have the role Cantu would have. The difference is Phillips has never had a 117 RBI season. Cantu is still only 26. I just don't get it.
John you could write an entire Reds Insider with insight into the Cantu cut and your bloggers would read every word.
You keep mentioning Maloney and Cueto in the competition for the 4th and 5th start spots. Is this your opinion or has Krivsky narrowed the competition to these 4? I can't imagine 2 pitchers with little AAA experience who've never pitched in a big league game or a big league spring training game for that matter, getting a legitimate shot at making the rotation out of spring. Besides the fact that they aren't on the 40 man.
If the Reds don't sign a veteran starter they will need too carry 2 long relief pitchers instead of the confirmed 6 bullpen spots that are locked up by one inning pitchers and loogy's. We thought the bullpen was bad last year? This year's bullpen will get absolutely abused eating up 2 starters that won't average 5 innings a start.
Krivsky has said since the Volquez trade that cueto and maloney are in the competition for the rotation.
I don't think there's any great mystery on the cantu move. He's a guy who spent the year in the minors with the rays. The reds would rather give the at-bats to keppinger.
Getting Cantu was a brilliant move.
Cutting Cantu was NOT a brilliant move.
John, at times you are a very feeble analyst.
Do some of you just think that Cantu just didnt fit into the Reds plans?Maybe he wasn't great in the dugout?Maybe the GM and Manager decided he just wasn't worth keeping.I mean that is their job.We all knew that he wasn't wanted by his former club.Why are some of you even on this site?You are so miserable being a Reds fan.The Reds will be just fine without you.Go root for another team.It's that simple.And no,I am not an employee of the Reds.Just a true fan,win or lose.
Cantu is a terrible defensive player, even at 1B. If he was as good as some seem to think he is he would have gotten a much better deal than he ended up with. He simply was no longer worth the roster spot, or the contract he likely would have been awarded from the unpredictable arbitration process.
Amen, Ken.
In reading some of these comments, you'd think the reds just released albert pujols.
Why is Cantu such a big deal? If he's such a terrible loss,why did he sign a one year minor leauge deal with the Marlins?
Woody
Cantu might not be a big deal for a Colorado or Arizona or LA Dodgers or Milwaukee or St. Louis or Atlanta or Mets or Phillies but you typically blind mentally feeble fans seem to forget that this is the REDS we're talking about. Cantu had one great year and now is something of a question mark as to whether he can regain his lost form but until the Reds actually finish above .500 they ought not dismiss players with Cantu's potential so lightly. A couple of injuries and we'll have some schnook playing first-base with a far worse lifetime OBP than Cantu!
So Cantu was taking up space? On a team with a GM who signs wretched OF projects like a woman shopping for shoes?
Oh please!
“A couple of injuries and we'll have some schnook playing first-base with a far worse lifetime OBP than Cantu!”
Really? Because with Votto, Hatteburg, and Keppinger (not to mention Javier Valentine in a pinch) on the major league roster and a guy like Andy Phillips in the minors, it seems that the Reds would require more than the cursory “couple of injuries” you mention to place them in any sort of bind where they would be playing anyone demonstrably worse than Cantu. The Cantu release is really a non issue, unless you think the Reds need to invest three major league roster spots on 1st basemen. There is nothing wrong with taking the front office to task for making questionable decisions, but it seems much of our fan base (or at least the most vocal part of it) want to attack EVERY decision Krivsky makes.
Jake i love the reds also and am a true fan ..win or lose
But when the losing becomes chronic and lasts for what 16 outta 17 years, I do become a little skeptical
Jack in Blue Ash
Can we play some baseball already!?
I'm ready for the chips to fall,
I want to take on all these negative know-it-alls!
Jon Bachmeyer
To Anonymous 3:45
The facts about Cantu:
1. Traded from Tampa Bay the worst team in baseball.
2. Had one decent season with said worst team in all of baseball
3. Free agent Cantu could only get a Spring Training invite from the Marlins who are in complete rebuilding mode again.
4. Plays first, second and third base and plays all positions badly.
What do all these facts add up to a weak minded Reds fan ?
That EE, Keppinger,Votto,Hatteburg and Phillips are just better than Cantu because if Cantu is the player you think he is he would not have been traded from the Rays and as a free agent he could have got a much better deal than a spring training invite on a rebuilding team. I guess all the other General Managers(except for the Marlins GM) in baseball are as dumb as Krivsky since none of them signed Cantu when they could have had him for nothing.
jake in blue ash,
It's the bengals who have not had winning records in 16 of the last 17 seasons, not the reds.
One more point of very feeble analysis on Cantu: The Reds would have had to offer him arbitration to keep him. The way arbitration works he would have gotten $900,000 or so -- guaranteed.
None of the other 29 teams thought enough of him to sign him to guaranteed contract. Cantu's big year was '05. Majewski had a 2.93 ERA that year.
Cantu may come back and be good again. But he had no chance to do with this Reds team -- he would not have gotten enough at-bats.
3:10 PM Blogger Aaron:
Where is the starting pitching depth that you speak of? The only starter in the Reds organization with any big league time is Tom Shearn. I admit his 4 quality starts in September give you some depth but look at how many starters the Reds have used the past 3 years. A MLB team needs at least 7 or 8 starters with experience/success to say they have depth. Not a bunch of self promoted prospects with major question marks.
More concerns:
Bailey gave the Reds 1 quality start last year and instead of working on pitching he has said he's been in the woods hunting the off season away.
Not sure Belisle will amount to anything more than a serviceable number 5. Look at his numbers last year.
Not sure what Voloquez will bring but his command issues worry me.
Maloney is the 9th best prospect in the Reds organization. Probably at best a 5th starter in his prime.
I believe in Cueto and think he has a great future but this year will be a big learning experience for him between AAA and the show. I would hate to see them rush him and realize he wasn't ready like they did with Bailey.
Richie Gardner: LOL...
But what worries me the most: The Reds are carrying 3 pitchers on the 40man that have never pitched above A ball and one of those pitchers was this year's Rule V draft pick.
Majewski and Coffey are all but guaranteed spots in the bullpen this year.
On a positive note the Reds should lead the league in runs scored per game. Mediocre pitching could and should win the Central.
I'm a realist not a pessimist.
I didn't want to see Cantu released but I'm over it. I wanted him as insurance in the event Votto was traded, which seemed to be a real possiblity during those Bedard discussions. Most players who hit 28 HRs and 117 RBI in the bigs at age 23, as Cantu did, have some more good years left in them. He would have been serviceable at 1B at least. Tampa only traded him to the Reds for Shackleford and Medlock because they had already hoodwinked Brendan Harris (.286/.334/.443 12 HRs 59 RBI) from the Reds for cash early last year. Tampa didn't have an opening at 1B either because they also won big by signing FA Carlos Pena last year for $800K (46 HRs and 121 RBI). How much did they pay Hatteburg?
Why do people give Bailey crap because he said he was going to go hunting in the offseason??? Every ballplayer takes a month or so to themselves after the season. It's a product of having a job where you get very few days off from Feb-Sept. That's like bitching about a teacher that takes a vacation during spring break. The guy knows he has stuff to work on. You don't get where he is without an outstanding work ethic so I can reasonably assume that after his hunting forray e resumed baseball related activities.
I guess I am willing to see Belisle in the rotation. Compare Harang's first full year on the mound with belisle's year last year. They are very comparable. Were people blogging in 2004 that Harang would not make it?
Andy S in SD
Those of you who would like to see Cueto pitch for Louisville can do so with free registeration at this site:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/multimedia/video.jsp
The date of the game is Aug 7, 2007.
Also playing in the 8/7/2007 Bats game is Bruce, Votto, & Hamilton. Even Cantu is in the game. As I'm watching the top of 2nd Bruce threw out a runner at home and made a nice running catch of a line drive.
How do you think Joey Votto and Andy Phillips will split time at first? Now with two young solid firstbasmen, do you think the Reds will deal Hatteberg? If so what is his trade value?
sorry for my earlier miscue non 7:06
since 1990 the Reds have had 3 winning seasons ..1 or 2 when they went .500.. and 12 or 13 losing seasons
still leaves me very skeptical and not so enthusiastic
But thats the beauty of most sports. You can ignore last year and delude yourself into thinking next year will be better..right Redsfuture?
Jack in Blue Ash
I see Fay the censor is at it again.
Fiorentino was a smart pick-up! Better to add a 14th outfielder than keep a 8th infielder. Brilliant!
To Jack in Blue Ash,
Since 1990, the Reds have had 6 winnings seasons, 1 .500 finish, and 11 losing seasons. They made the postseason in 1995 and 1999 (lost a 1-game playoff in '99). Just because the Reds' last winning record was before you entered grade school doesn't mean that the franchise is a chronic loser. We're going through a rough patch.
The fact is that no franchise in baseball except maybe the Indians, Rockies, or Phillies, can match our young core of players who are locked in for the next 4 years. Players such as Phillips, Harang, Arroyo, Bruce, Bailey, Votto, Cueto, and EE are all signed at well below market value for the next several years. Even Hopper, Volquez, Maloney, and Keppinger are ours for the next 3-5 years and could turn out to be good. With a core this solid and this young, I'll repeat the prediction that I made at this point last year: 2008 could will be a bit early for us to be great, but it could surprise us and be a breakout year for the young Reds. Either way, the Reds will be one of the best teams in baseball in 2009.
- Tim
FOLKS: More and more people are now seeing Clueless K. is an arrogant,incompetent jerk with NO plan!!!Check his record----he is a complete looser!! WAKE UP CINCY FIRE KRIVSKY
Anon, 7:17: Sign your name and you're less likely to get censored. Don't call people who sign their named idiots and you're less likely to get censored. Don't say things about players that you wouldn't say to their face and you're less likely to get censored.
I'm tired of name calling, insults and the like. Saying picking up a left-handed hitting OF is a terrible move is fine.
Votto and Bruce need to start nearly every day next year, for two reasons. First they are very talented and ready. Secondly, they don't have to bear the biggest part of the load because Griffy and Dunn are still here to shield them. In 2009 JB & JV will have to provide nearly all the LH power but they will be better prepared for that pressure after going through the 2008 season.
Tim .. I am sorry but this franchise has become a chronic loser..I know you want to apply your revisionist memory and hope to the argument..but look up the definition of "chronic"
Regrading your "core", I think Phillips and Harang are a "sure thing" The rest of the players you mentioned are inconsistent and some have never played in the major leagues
I appreciate your enthusiasm Tim but you remind me of a Bengals fan after the NFL draft. We take some players..some with great potential and all of a sudden the next year looks great and the franchise is saved
Tim..hope and emotion aside aside..the fact is that regardless of player mix and your evaluation of such..many...many franchises seem to do better than the Cincinnati Reds.Records dont lie Tim.
Again..we still lack middle relief.
And I know Tim ..Coutlangus, Coffey, Salmon, Mc Beth ,etc will all of a sudden become superior pitches this winter.
WE lost a superior defensive outfielder in Hamilton ..Dunn is terrible defensively..Griffey has become average.
We have no catcher
I love baseball..I am somewhat excited..but I dont see this tremendous improvement that you are deluding yourself into seeing. And I am sorry Tim since the early 90's this franchise has essentially had a chronic losing record.
Jack in Blue Ash
Hey Fay, you're a lousy blog host.
Oh, wait, is "lousy" one of the Tali-banned words on here?
You're a less-than-palatable blog host.
Is that better?
Mr. Censor? Mr. Politically Correct? Mr. Don't Wanna Hurt Da Wittle Feewings of the Pooh Wittle Spoiled Millionaires on the Reds?
You want yes-bloggers or critics that you can "control" but you often selectively censor.
Move to China or Iran where you belong!
I suspect that Fay's blog lacks many critics because of his campaign to be Big Brother Blogger towards otherwise palatable words in the popular media such as idiot or moron.
He's dumbed-down the blog and muzzled a few critics here while of course allowing some other posters to rant freely.
Most blogs on most topics are run by writers who can do a far better job of letting contributors vent than Fay does here.
I agree that profanity is something that is reasonable to censor here but apart from Fay's own personal taste, you can't honestly or credibly argue that "idiot" or "moron" are words that even young kids don't hear frequently in many popular media and conversational outlets. So who is offended besides Fay? And who cares if you're offended? A hot-stove-league debate should be as feisty and cranky as a political blog. That's part of the fun.
If you really think there's zero humor in the use of idiot or moron in these posts, then you really need to get some humor-enhancing "Clear" from Balco, bro!
A healthy debate should involve praise and criticism whenever each are earned. I said Krivsky gets an A+ for his daring but necessary (we need starting pitching candidates) Hamilton-for-prospects trade and I said that it was the height of idiocy for Krivsky to dump Cantu, and the same goes for all the Cantu fair-weather fans who said last year that picking up Cantu was brilliant, and who now say that dumping Cantu was brilliant.
And all of the above are wholly accurate.
Fact: Picking up Fiorentino was the height of idiocy. Dumping Cantu was questionable. Saying that Cantu stunk is more than a little loony.
I hope Cantu hits 30 HRs, drives in 100, and hits .270+ for the Fish this year. If so, I'll call you idiots idiots a thousand more times on here, even if Fay goes 1,000 for 1,000 with his delete button.
Ten Key Probabilities for the Reds' 2008 Season (maybe one of these posts won't get censored by the master idiot?):
(1) Fiorentino is a completely senseless pick-up;
(2) There are at least 8 NL teams not counting St. Louis that are far better on paper than the Reds are right now;
(3) We need to make another sacrifice of a great prospect to get more starting pitching or else #2 might remain true for the entire season; but
(4) The Reds are more than just one starter away from being a play-off caliber team;
(5) Fans who say Votto and Bruce should start every day are geniuses (the opposite of idiots);
(6) Keppinger should start every day too;
(7) Contenders ought not to have fat slow shortstops who can't steal bases as their starting SS;
(8) Andy Phillips is so inferior to Cantu I could scream, anyone who thinks Old Man Andy Phillips is even the equal to Cantu is a bloody moron--Andy Phillips is practically qualified to play shuffleboard with Julio Franco at this point--another useless pick up by the Reds (had we kept Cantu, Phillips would have no place on this team;
(9) We paid too much money for a manager, and we picked the wrong manager; and
(10) The Reds need to put their players on diets, and get them to replace 1,000 calories with 1,000 reps pumping iron, I'm sick of seeing double chins on the mound and players in speed positions who can't run fast enough to represent legitimate steal threats.
P.S. If Fay were a big-shot producer in Hollywood, he'd be saying to me "you'll never eat lunch in this town again."
Thumb in the eye to all the politically correct censoring weenies of the world. Especially those with big-shot-writer egos locally. Get over yourself Fay, you're to Bill O'Reilly what Fatex Gonzalez is to Derek Jeter.
I kowtow to none, censor!
Just when I thought all they whiney,ill-informed,their parents didn't love them so they post their rants, cry babies where taking the off till the season started, Anon 8;54 Anon 9:09 and JF(a.k.a. jaded fruitcake) put my fears to rest.
Why do you hate John so much? If you can blog better step up and start one. Probably because you can't do it or could be least bit informative or entertaining.
Are you all related to Cantu? Do you have man crushes/crushes on him? Did I miss it? Did he win MVP,Cy Young,Comeback Player of The Year awards? Are you three calling him a difference maker?
Moron and Idiots are peppered through above rants so yes, you can use those word on this post. You should also use it to describe yourselves. Truly it fitting of all three of you.
Thanks for the morning laughs! I now know that your right is safely protected to come on and be complete and utter fools. I can use your rants to show people what morons and idiots do when they post! Please post again!
If your going to continue to get this kind of negative name calling crap perhaps you should turn the comment option off. Some of us would just be content to get the latest news quickly and that the blog does provide.
Ken, some of us want to hear uncensored opinions and vigorous debate largely uncensored.
If you want just the news, maybe you should go read just the news? Although you have a right to express your opinion against having commentators at all. No one is forcing you to read every comment!
If no one on the Reds ever reads this blog, why would Fay care what was said here?
If we kept Hamilton, we'd have two less pitching prospects on a team that has a very mediocre starting rotation as of now.
Hopefully some guys step up this spring, make the team, and give the Reds many quality starts.
Griffey mediocre? How so?
Dunn's defensive liabilities are well-known but Dunn is a proven commodity (for better and worse) while Josh, who is one of my favorite ballplayers, still has to prove himself for a few seasons--durability and the shadow of relapse that always, fairly or not, hangs over addicts' heads, are legit issues for Hammie.
You can't keep all the stud outfielders on a team so lacking in pitching (and deep in outfielders).
Krivsky took a chance, and that time it was a well-reasoned chance.
Had Krivsky traded Hamilton for Fiorentino and Andy Phillips, well...idiot and moron would be too weak to describe such an acquisition.
Fiorentino, Andy Phillips, and Tub-O-Goo cement shoes Gonzalez don't belong on a "competive" Reds team.
If those three are the best we can do at their respective position (back up or no) that makes Cantu's release, especially for the money involved, all the more pin-headed.
1) Fiorentino will make less than 1/3 of what Cantu would have, had he remained a Red. This is nothing more than grabbing a cheap, young player with some upside to provide minor league depth and injury insurance. Why are people so up in arms about this pick-up?
2) Hard to argue with this, though it goes without saying that any team that will be relying young, unproven talent will appear weak on paper. Whether this bears itself out on the field remains to be seen.
3) Now you are operating under the assumption that none of the Reds major pitching prospects will pan out this season, which seems to be every bit as great a leap of faith as the optimists believing they will all pan out and give the Reds the best rotation in baseball.
4) The Reds are more than one starter away from contention, no doubt about that.
5) Again, little doubt that Votto and Bruce ought to be starting everyday.
6) and 7) seem to be tied together. Do contenders frequently start guys with zero range at SS? As far as our so-called fat SS and his lack of speed, the NL Champion Rockies started a SS who stole 7 bases last year, the Diamondbacks SS Stephen Drew had 9, and the Indians SS Jhonny Peralta swiped a whopping 4. So three of the final four SS were not speed threats by any stretch of the imagination.
8) Is Cantu superior to Phillips offensively, yes. However anyone who thinks that Andy Phillips is an old man is a candidate for being labeled an idiot themselves. Phillips turns 31 in April, hardly Julio Franco. Phillips may not have a place on the team anyways; you might note that Fay listed him as a MINOR LEAGUE signing.
9) Hard to comment one way or the other on this, although I would be inclined to give the manager a chance to actually do his job before critiquing his performance.
10) Your preoccupation with weight boarders on the bizarre. What speed positions are manned by these obese professional athletes you are obsessed with? I can only assume this is another attack on Gonzales. Or are you trying to represent corner outfielders as speed positions as well? The Reds were 14th out of 30 (8th in the NL) in MLB last year in steals, get over this misconception that the Reds sit around waiting for the three run homer and need to run more. The Orioles and Rays were second and forth in steals, how did that work out for them? And it’s not as if none of the Reds have made a commitment to improving their physical conditioning the last several years, Dunn was noticeably thinner this last season and Coffee was noted for his weight loss several weeks ago.
As an aside, I find it ironic that the people most bent out of shape over Fay’s supposed censorship are people unwilling to create even the most indistinguishable alias for their comments to be attached to. Remaining completely anonymous allows posters to make wild individual statements since they can never be attributed to them or used against them in future conversation/debates. Although I disagree with much of what you say JF, I at least commend you for putting a name to your statements.
1.Leave Fay alone. He's doin his job.
2.Cantu is not an all-star. LET IT GO. Nice eye, good power, atrocious D, and most importantly, no room for him to play. If 2B Brandon Phillips missed the squad, why would UTILITY IF Jorge Cantu make it?
3.There are 5 assured spots in a 6-deep bullpen. Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Bray and Majewski. When the latter 2 have been healthy, they HAVE been pretty good for us, espescially Bray.
4.Coffey has the inside track to the last slot because the Reds love his arm but McBeth or Salmon could edge him out. Even with those wild cards, we still have at least 4 reliable relievers.
5.Last year we had 1. Then we had 2.
6.Dusty Baker was a great hire. You accomplish bringing in a proven winner and leader, breaking tradition of promoting within, changing national image and an excuse to make expensive moves that can help the franchise win, something the Reds were only partially doing every 5 years, to no avail.(see Milton, Griffey)
7.The Reds ARE that close to playoff contention, without a Bedard. A Cliff Lee lefty in the middle would set us right, but the roster as is has to be good for at least 82 wins.
9-9 vs Cubs
8-7 vs Brewers
...and they were playing in a pennant race, not mailing it in with callups.
The Cubs ace can't beat the Reds ace.
Ned Yost?? I'd watch for a mutiny sometime in June if they start slow
Think how much players love Dusty. Low morale and no faith in Jerry(or the pen) in May and June has to account for at least 5 losses, and if you don't think so, you weren't watching them loaf, stumble and blow games.
The bullpen blew at least 28 leads. Conservatively subtract 12. Assume the Reds win 8.
That puts the Reds at 85 wins.
8.2007 Opening Day Rotation
Harang, Arroyo, Lohse, Belisle, Milton
2008 Rotation if season started today
Harang, Arroyo, Belisle, Volquez, Bailey.
Do you really want Milton and Lohse back?
Belisle is in his 2nd year of starting, and he KNOWS he isn't promised a job, I don't care what Krivsky says. If Cliff Lee comes down 71, we could see Cueto by May if Belisle struggles.
9.The lineup isn't quite balanced with righties but if EE hits like he did 2nd half last year, you all will forget about Cantu in a hurry. Even if you question his handling of pitchers, its hard to deny that Dusty KNOWS hitting.
10.The overriding fact. The Reds were 6 games out in mid-late August. A team that looked worse than the Nationals through June (and we lost to them several times), with a little spark from a new NO NAME manager and a SOMEWHAT settling bullpen we managed to play good baseball. Add Dusty, Cordero, Bray and Majewski available from Spring Training, no platoon at 1B, a steadier family situation for Gonzo(who played really well when he appeared less tense), and several young power arms to choose from (no Miltons, Lohses or Shearns please), the Reds will be much improved.
I can think of no reason why vigorous debate needs to include name calling and insults. I enjoy reading other opinions as well but when they are presented as they often are here it takes away from the whole debate.
Why is anyone picking on John Fay..he really is a very decent fellow?
I do enjoy vigorous debate though name calling is not necessary
Obviously there are many die hard reds fans that truly believe we are very close to being a contender and that some of these off season moves will carry us to the top.
Talk is cheap
24/7 How do u know Dusty Baker is a great hire.. he has not managed a single game for the Reds as of yet..And for your information many of the players were responsible for his being fired in Chicago..his affinity for the older players caused a great deal of locker room issues
The reds are not close to being contenders 24/7 how many games did they finish out of first place.?
Only In your mind..and if everything you create holds true they are close and this is the problem on this blog
Many of us are just realists..
We got perhaps a very good closer and two prospects, one of which has a problem sticking in the majors and another that has not pitched at that level.
Aside from that dude, I see nothing that makes me all happy fuzzy and warm
Jack in Blue Ash
1.Leave Fay alone. He's doin his job.
--bias and censoring mild words is not what a good blog host does.
2.Cantu is not an all-star. LET IT GO. Nice eye, good power, atrocious D, and most importantly, no room for him to play. If 2B Brandon Phillips missed the squad, why would UTILITY IF Jorge Cantu make it?
--You let it go. Who says a substitute infielder, backup to Votto at first base, has to be an All-Star? No one here ever claimed Cantu was an All-Star (yet). If there's room for Fiorentino and Andy Phillips to play, there's plenty of room for a Cantu-type project to play instead of signing those guys. I guess we're stuck with Andy Phillips now...oh that will help the Reds get back to the playoffs...
3.There are 5 assured spots in a 6-deep bullpen. Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Bray and Majewski. When the latter 2 have been healthy, they HAVE been pretty good for us, espescially Bray.
--The Starting Pitching was mentioned, not relievers. Majewski has been mostly awful. Fiorentino would do better on the mound, maybe they'll convert him?
4.Coffey has the inside track to the last slot because the Reds love his arm but McBeth or Salmon could edge him out. Even with those wild cards, we still have at least 4 reliable relievers.
--Coffey is horrible too. He has an inside track to be out of MLB soon. We have bad starting pitching. Our relief pitching has been improved hopefully by Cordero's addition--a "new year" for Coffey and Majewski brings the Reds the same old same old for both of them.
5.Last year we had 1. Then we had 2.
--Huh?
6.Dusty Baker was a great hire. You accomplish bringing in a proven winner and leader, breaking tradition of promoting within, changing national image and an excuse to make expensive moves that can help the franchise win, something the Reds were only partially doing every 5 years, to no avail.(see Milton, Griffey)
--Dusty Baker will be a disaster for the Reds. Take your statement and that statement; each is a prediction. We could have hired a cheap manager and spent the difference on a free agent Starting Pitcher. Dusty can't pitch, so Dusty will be very little help next year at best...and it remains to be seen whether Baker can do a good job here, with these players.
7.The Reds ARE that close to playoff contention, without a Bedard. A Cliff Lee lefty in the middle would set us right, but the roster as is has to be good for at least 82 wins.
--The Reds are FAR from being playoff-contenders. Too many other teams in the NL too far ahead of the Reds, with far better starting pitching, and better relief pitching. The Roster as-is will be good for 75 wins, at best. Buying 10 more wins by upgrading the rotation is problematic. We have to hope that Bailey and Cueto and our new "Rangers" really step up. If so, then 80-85 wins is within reach. And if so, then maybe the Reds get within 5 games of the wild-card but a healthier pitching staff for St. Louis in 08 will make winning the division nearly impossible, and the East or West will be where the wild card comes from.
[Cut to...]
2008 Rotation if season started today
Harang, Arroyo, Belisle, Volquez, Bailey.
(the National League can't wait to face 4 of those 5!)
[Cut to...]
9.The lineup isn't quite balanced with righties but if EE hits like he did 2nd half last year, you all will forget about Cantu in a hurry. Even if you question his handling of pitchers, its hard to deny that Dusty KNOWS hitting.
--Yawn, Dusty represents a pile of money we could have spent on Pitching. EE hopefully improves on his start and his season last year. EE has nothing to do with how stupid it was to cut Cantu. As bad as Narron and at times the other guy was last year, they didn't give up mountains of runs early, as our starters did too often, nor blow leads late as our relievers did too often. Our pitching made both managers look bad. I hope Dusty does well, but on a bad team, Dusty has put up bad records. And the Reds, while not a bad team, are not yet a playoff team.
10. The overriding fact. The Reds were 6 games out in mid-late August. A team that looked worse than the Nationals through June (and we lost to them several times), with a little spark from a new NO NAME manager and a SOMEWHAT settling bullpen we managed to play good baseball. Add Dusty, Cordero, Bray and Majewski available from Spring Training, no platoon at 1B, a steadier family situation for Gonzo(who played really well when he appeared less tense), and several young power arms to choose from (no Miltons, Lohses or Shearns please), the Reds will be much improved.
--Much improved? Dream on! Hope that Kool Aide tastes good.
Dusty and the 2008 Reds will be nearly as bad as the 2007 Reds.
Cordero and Bray will need to have great seasons if we are to win 80 games this year.
80-82 won't get the Reds off the post-season couches. To make the playoffs in 2008, the Reds will need to win the division, and this season expect the Cubs or Brewers or Cardinals to post 90 wins or more and take it.
Unless we get a genuine Starter stud somehow added to this rotation, that then stays healthy, and we have all the prospects and Bailey have breakout seasons.
Miracles can happen. Anything can happen. But 2008 is so far looking like lipstick on the 2007 pig, and not much more.
Dusty's contract isn't anywhere near being large enough to have boughten pitching with it, so quit your dang whining!
You don't win with no-name, spineless managers, in case you hadn't noticed.
2:57 anon
What is boughten? Too funny
Got news for ya fellow..Dusty baker is not a manager that you would consider to have a spine..nor is he tough
anon 1:55 excellent post
every single one of you that has suggested the Reds are gonna do great next year re read your posts.. I see.."if only, potential, prospect, will improve etc"
I see maybe a 500 season
Cordero is the only addition of significance and many already are claiming the NL Central Title
jack in blue ash
just checked the free agent list and it said brad salmon was non-tendered. what does that mean exactly? there's no way he'll be on the club, or could they re-sign him still? He's not on the 40-man.
If they cut him, I think that's a shame, because I thought he got a raw deal last year. He had a decent ERA, and about as many strikeouts as hits as innings, not too bad considering how bad the reds bullpen was last year. He also was on of the few guys who could really hit the mid-90s too, so if he is cut i think that is a big shame. he seems just like the kind of guy that will catch on with another team and end up doing really well.
Salmon and Jerry Gil were re-signed to minor league deals.
You anon guys continue to crack me up. I read anon 1:55 entire episle because I was board.
Todd Coffey had nothing but success until last year. Maybe puts a little too much pressure on himself to be the closer, and has a blow up year.
Just go compare his numbers with David Weathers.
I'll take Todd Coffey anyday.
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=cin&playerID=434298
reaganspad
you were "board" huh?
Apparently across the head.
Get well soon.
Coffey's TOP FIVE "highlight reel" for 2007:
6/13 0.0 innings, 1 ER, 2 Hits, 1 BB
7/7 0.0 innings 3 ER, 3 Hits
7/21 0.0 innings 4 ER, 5 Hits
8/4 0.1 innings 3 ER, 1 Hit, 1 BB
9/4 0.0 innings 3 ER, 3 Hits,1 BB
Only three Blown Saves in 2007, so yeah, I see what you mean, he's a great pitcher, boy the Reds are lucky to have him! If only we had more Todd Coffeys. Look out Boston!
REGANSPAD...what is "episle and board"?
Once again making excuses for players and suggesting that they will have a great year this season (Coffey)
He stunk for an entire season what would make you think there is gong to be a miraculous turnaround.?
Please don't make fun of us Anons until you learn how to spell at the 4th grade level sir. Thank you
Jack in Blue Ash
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