Dusty on Patterson, Bruce
Dusty Baker's on the Corey Patterson signing (Patterson and Jerry Hairston were not here this morning):
“Like I told you all the other day, No. 2, we’re short on bodies. No. 2, competition is healthy. We’re trying to improve ourself for now and future possibly. We’re trying to win this thing and go north with best people possible.”
“The main thing is he's still young. What's Corey? 28 years old? To me, he hasn't scratched the surface as to what he can do. He's one of the fastest runners in the league. He plays a great center field. He was caught in between not knowing what kind of hitter he was going to be -- if he was get-on-base speed man or he had enough power. It kind of messes you up. As a young hitter, I went through that. You don't if you’re a hitter or a slugger. I think he's decided through hook or crook that he's more of a hitter. When we had with the Cubs, he hadn't even bunted in minor leagues. He was told he was 30-30 man. Sonny Jackson taught him how to bunt. Now, he's one of the best bunters around. His upside potential is great, and he’s been a around a while.”
Baker was asked if Patterson had been rushed by the Cubs: “I said that once when I was there. I got in trouble from the organization because they said they didn't rush him. He's kind of epitome of hype – not to come down on you guys – but the media (builds a player up). Then every body's clamoring: Where's so and so? He's kind of where Jay Bruce used to be. In Chicago, everybody said ‘we want Corey, we want Corey.’ He came up and did real good. Then he kind of failed. The next thing they wanted to run him out of town and get someone else in there. He’s been though quite a bit of stuff.”
Does this mean Jay Bruce isn't going to make the club: "No, didn’t say that. I don’t leave open ended sentences. I say what’s on my mind. No, no, not at all. Bruce is a tremendous talent. This guy's going to be a star for a long time – long time. You don’t know if the time is right now or not. But if I didn't think he had a chance to make this club I sure wouldn't be playing him as much as I have. He's got more at-bats than anyone on the team.”
“I leave my mind open for anything. We've got to figure what’s best for the club and what's best for him, too. I was there with Matt Williams in San Francisco. I was there myself. I'm not talking about some book. It has nothing to do with age. Some of it has to do with experience and at-bats. (Bruce) has come on a course real quick. How many kids go Single-A, Double-A, Triple-A in year?”
28 Comments:
nice to see Dusty Baker showing maturity and insight regrading Bruce. I am impressed. Have to run.. Ill let Jack put in my "two cents"
Julie RN
Baker will find any excuse to play Patterson and keep Bruce in AAA.
Just watch.
At least Patterson is fast. Faster than Hopper and Freel, right?
Is there anyway we can ask Dusty why he pursued someone who was named in the Mitchell Report--Jerry Harriston Jr?
John,
Liked your list of who would be on the 25 man roster from a couple of weeks ago. Can you update it based on the new signings and the first week of games?
I just don't get it. The Reds seem to baffle me more and more each year. The area which needed to be addressed in the off-season was starting pitching. We don't pull the trigger on Bedard because Bruce, Cueto and Bailey were too valuable. So valuable we went out and signed a middle of the road Fogg and a relief pitcher Affeldt to turn into a starter. Bruce, the No. 1 prospect, is now so valuable we bring in Patterson. He is hitting .500 so far and evidently that is not good enough. I agree Baker is looking for any reason to send him to AAA. And what about Jerry Gil who has been off the charts this spring? And why Hairston? I've heard these guys bragging about Janish, you've got Keppinger so why bring in a guy from the Mitchell Report? They say competition is good - I think the young guns have been slapped in the face and I think the Hamilton trade is going to come back to haunt them. Volzquez will end up in AAA also while Hamilton will be starting in the Bigs and making a huge impact for the Rangers. If this was how it was going to be, we should've traded Bruce and Bailey for Bedard and packaged Freel/Hopper and a prospect for at least a No. 3 starter. And 3 catchers again - haven't we learned our lesson from that. Probably not.
Chris- not sure how you can argue the signing of either Fogg or Affeldt, or patterson. All these are low risk moves that cost the Reds next to nothing. Most importantly we didn't give up YOUNG arms that are going to led us into the future. Look past this year and you will find the good in all this
First off, I don't like the signings. HOWEVER, these are minor league deals. They aren't even guaranteed to be there when they head north.
These guys aren't good and I don't think we should get worked up over them signing. They are there simply for competition. Maybe Dusty and WacKo saw that some of the younger players were just going through the motions so they wanted to created a buzz.
These two will not impress anyone and then will not make the 25-man roster. Hell, they won't make the 40-man. All it is is a little heads up to the young guys. Nothing more. The Reds lose nothing.
Like Dusty said they need bodies. They are fill-ins until some of these players get better.
Give me a couple day for new take on the 25-man roster. They way things are going, i'll be lucky to his 20 on my original list.
I can argue Fogg because he is not the type pitcher for GABP. Affeldt will give us depth in the bullpen but we have Bray, Merker, Stanton who are already LH. And I'm tired of 'looking past this season.' That has been the Reds' theme for far too long. Stanton should be gone - he's started out just like '07. If they want a low-risk signing go get Freddy Garcia as a No. 3. The only thing I can see now is a slow start, many unhappy players like Freel, Hopper and the young guys, many trades before the deadline, and facing the same challenges next off-season that the Reds have been facing for years now. Harang - Arroyo then a mixed bag. Explain why we have 2 left-handed 1Bs - how does that work. If Votto makes the team, he is an every day player. Think Hatteberg will be happy being a PH. I want the Reds to do well, even though they frustarte me regularly I always pull for them. However, I see turmoil down the road. You don't brag about having five players in the Top 50 and then send them all to AAA but I can see that happeneing. The young guns made coming into this year seem exciting, giving the Reds a new start. I just don't like the way they are doing things - look at Bailey. First he needed more time, then they moved him up (yes, I know he was injured) but here he was an untouchable and the Reds No. 1 of the future and right now I bet they send him back to AAA. Just a recipe for 3rd or 4th place again.
From reading these posts, you'd think being a GM/manager was as easy as 1-2-3.
Don't blame Baker for the signing of Patterson and Hairston - Krivsky and Jocketty signed him. Now I'm not saying those are bad/good signings, but they are just minor league deals.
Besides, since when did competition hurt anyone? Having Bruce or Bailey compete for a job only makes them better and more competitive.
Organizational depth. I actually love the Patterson signing. I don't think there is much of a chance of Griffey coming back next year and honestly, who knows about Dunn.
I hope, REALLY hope, that the Reds lock him up long-term, but if they don't, that's two gaping holes in the OF with little depth behind them.
If Patterson can at least approach his potential, that gives you a GREAT CF next year and allows you to move Bruce to RF, and if Dunn resigns, there's your 2009 OF.
I hope Patterson makes the team, they move Freel and/or Hopper and Bruce is the starting CF, with Patterson spot-starting and filling in.
As long as we WIN for years to come, I don't care what the lineup looks like.
This is a move about next year. Not this year. Patterson stays in AAA and works on getting better. If he performs well, he would be a starting OF. Patterson is like Hopper with power...not bad if you ask me.
I will be upset if Patterson is brought up over Bruce especially since Bruce is hitting nicely.
I don't know about Baker's managing but I love the way he handles the media. He's honest and tells you what's on his mind! Holy crap! No more acid gargling Narron ramblings bullsh1t. I'm glad we finally have an honest manager.
Damnit. Why aren't we bringing up Bruce right now, what's the hold-up? We shouldn't have brought Bailey up so soon, look what happened. Why don't we get some depth in the bullpen? Damnit we signed too many relievers. Who is Brandon Phillips and why are we messing with his poor attitude? We need to lock him long-term, what's the hold-up? Arroyo for Wily Mo, that's terrible, Arroyo is a God, we need to ship Arroyo.
Does it ever end?
The season hasn't even started. Let's wait until Bailey and Bruce are in AAA for two months and Patterson and Hairston are on the 25-man roster before we start going Henny Penny.
There's plenty of other reasons to complain, let's talk about those.
If Patterson doesn't make the roster, he's gonna ask for his release. There's no way he's spending an entire year in L'ville if he's got a chance at making any big league club. Someone will find a spot for him.
The odd man out to me would appear to be Freel. Dusty's made his affinity for Hopper pretty well known, obviously he likes Patterson as well. With Castro, Kepp, and Hatte as your back-up IFs, Freel is gonna struggle to get PT. At least until Griffey gets hurt.
How about something off the wall. If Patterson did take the minor league assignment and Dunn and Jr. didn't return next year. What if they played Votto in LF Patterson in CF Bruce in RF. Then started Keppinger at 3rd and Edwin at 1st. Because if you watch EE he is a vacuum to anything hit in his direction but his errors are throwing errors. Votto looked to be able to handle left. Kep would give good defense at 3rd and even if you didn't have Patterson or if he flopped you could play Hopper in CF giving you a pretty fast CF.
I like this deal. With Griffey and Dunn gone next year, hopefully Dunn for a stud starting pitcher, they'll be two outfield openings. We need a fast lead-off man so Patterson will start in center this year with Bruce backing him up. Next year Bruce takes over in center and Patterson goes to right or left. It will all work itself out.
hopper would start before patterson
i dont think Dunn is going anywhere
I didn't understand Wayne's trading/signing of Keppinger this time last year. It seemed to me that he was destined to be what you all are saying that Patterson is, a tweener that would be at the end of the bench or at AAA. Keppinger I believe was out of options, but doesn't matter, he became a vital part of our team.
Hmmm from question mark to vital. Keppinger, Phillips.
Patterson has Phillips talent but used to think he was an HR guy.....
I say that he is ok because of the word "former" Cub
For 2008, a season where the Reds are a long shot to win anything, PLAY BRUCE FROM DAY 1.
I like Patterson as a pinch runner only. He's a good guy to have as the 6th OF, stating in Louisville and ready to come up if there is an injury.
I liked Hairston and thought his talent was wasted by the Orioles and Cubs. Now, he's a utility infielder at best and we don't need 1. Put him in Louisville too.
In Dusty . . . . . . we . . . . . trusty . .
The evaluation of talent with this new Jocketty / Baker influence really troubles me. Signing real fringy guys like Patterson, Hairston, and Affeldt is the sort of plug-and-chug that both of these guys in trouble in their last jobs. Jocketty signing guys like Kip Wells and Juan Encarnacion got him in trouble in St. Louis, and Baker playing guys like Neifi Perez, Todd Hollandsworth, and Jeromy Burnitz really weighed those franchises down.
Lou comes into Chicago, opens up spots for young players like Theriot and Marmol, club takes off. Now watch St. Louis, opening up spots for Rasmus now that Encarnacion is shelved...they will get better.
How can we not choose Jay Bruce over Corey freakin Patterson? This guy washes out of Chicago AND Baltimore, yet he's all of the sudden going to 'get it'. Very, very poor player evaluations.
I read someone blogging and I read it myself on mlbtraderumors.com that if we wait to bring up bruce until later this year we can add a yr b4 he is a free-agent. Now we root for a small market team, so IMO you don't even hesitate on this one. Believe me I want to see the kid play too, but if you can make a smart business play in a small market...i think you have to do it.
Another blogger wrote that fozsports.com said talks with lofton broke down because he wouldnt do the minor league deal thing. This is fairly low-risk and who knows maybe patterson turns it around. another 30+ steal guy can't hurt thats for sure. also a LH/RH platoon in CF isnt something I want bruce to be a part of, and thats what he would have to be if we call him up. Give him the ABs in AAA and I'll take an extra yr of bruce down the road.
besides we need to keep bruce out of dusty's hands as long as possible given his track record w/young guys
I just heard Tracy Jones say he think this whole Patterson thing is setting up a deal for a pitcher. He thinks Freel and Votto are gone. I don't think Votto is; however, I have heard that a lot of teams are asking about Hatteberg. I could see a package for a pitcher - who I don't know. I'd still like to see the Reds sign Garcia on a minor league deal to see if he is okay - then you don't giove anyone up. John do you think there is anything to a trade?
My concern is that Baker doesn't like playing young guys period. Why else does he try to get Lofton in here? And the first thing he got a chance to blow out of proportion (Bruce's leg) he will use that to send him to AAA. I am glad Bruce spoke out so at least when Baker sends him down we will know it wasn't because of his leg. I do think Dusty can make an impact - but now that things are underway I am not sure he was the right guy to deal with all the good, young talent the Reds have. It's kind of like the Reds to do this. First we need starting pitching so we sign relievers and more OFs and they bring in 2 left handed 1B. Then we need a manager who deals well with younger players and we bring in a guy who likes veterans and has a rep of not giving the young guns thier opportunity. If the Reds were so worried about Bruce ebing ready why trade Hamilton? And I know they think Volquez is going to be good but we need have downgraded from Hamilton to Patterson and Volquez, Cueto, Bailey and the rest of the young guys will be AAA. Louisville may have better attendance than the Reds is that's the case. I'll go - I want to see the young guys. We didn't get the pitching we needed to be a true contender so why not finish 3rd or 4th or worse with the young guys and give them some experience? Will the Reds ever get anything right or are we looking at the Bengals' twin?
I completely agree with the last 'Anonymous' posting. I'm worried Dusty is set in his ways and will play the veterans at the expense of a little patience. You have to show a little faith in guys who show flashes at times, and can grown into the everyday role. If you keep throwing obstacles in the way of Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey, you hold down the upward mobility of this team. See Chicago last year...Ryan Theriot, Mike Fontenot, and Carlos Marmol were given a chance to perform in the place of their mediocre veteran teammates, and it propelled that team forward.
Let Bruce, Bailey, and Cueto propel this team forward, and banish Patterson, Affeldt, and Fogg back onto the scrap heap from which they came!
RE: The evaluation of talent with this new Jocketty / Baker influence really troubles me. Signing real fringy guys like Patterson, Hairston, and Affeldt is the sort of plug-and-chug that both of these guys in trouble in their last jobs. Jocketty signing guys like Kip Wells and Juan Encarnacion got him in trouble in St. Louis, and Baker playing guys like Neifi Perez, Todd Hollandsworth, and Jeromy Burnitz really weighed those franchises down.
Jocketty problem in St. Louis had nothing to do with the players he signed as free agents. He had a dispute about them bringing in a guy to head their minor league scouting. Encarnacion was not a bust in St. Louis. His numbers were pretty much what they were for his career. I'd be more than happy to see the Reds enjoy some of the success that the Cardinals did during his tenure. He brought in Rolen, Edmonds, McGwire, Wainwright, Suppan and Eckstein. Those were the heart of some pretty good teams. And, didn't the Cubs make the playoffs under Baker? Seems like only an interference by a fan probably cost them from a World Series.
Oh, yes....one name I forgot above....Larry Walker. Jocketty always had a knack for bringing in the right guys. If anything, regarding Kip Wells...the team's owner, Bill Dewitt hamstrung him last year with salary restrictions. To blame Jocketty for him is ridiculous.
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