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John Fay
John Fay has been the Reds beat writer for the Enquirer since 2001. Prior to that, he served in a variety of roles for the Enquirer: backup Reds writer, UC beat writer, backup Bengals writer and as a general assignment reporter. He is a Cincinnati native and a graduate of Elder High School and the University of Dayton.

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Tuesday, March 4, 2008

Why not shots?

I've gotten e-mail asking if the Reds give players flu shots since it seems like every spring the flu marches through the clubhouse infecting everyone in sight.

"We don't," trainer Mark Mann said. "It's up to the individual players. There's conflicting research on how effective (the shots) are in that age category."

And what the Reds get isn't always the flu.

"A lot of times it's not," Mann said. "It's a virial thing. I lot of players bring there family down. They'll catch something from their kids. They'll pass it back and forth. Any time you have 60-odd in one confined place for 12 hours a day, it's very easy for something to spread."


26 Comments:

at 3:28 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

John..getting low on topics of interest?

 
at 3:34 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

J of BA

If you re-read his post, he states that he is responding to e-mail from fans, which is one of things he is paid to do. Pretty simple.

 
at 3:38 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess this a good post to ask how is it on siesta key? Is the Broken Egg still open?..."Save the Egg".

 
at 4:01 PM Blogger Rob Dicken said...

I find it interesting that flu shots aren't required. My dad is 60 years old and his doctor still recommends flu shots to him. My doctor still recommends them to me as well and I am 24.

Obviously it is somewhat of a money maker (face it, all medicine is), but it doesn't make sense...what type of "research" are trainers and team doctors looking at that normal physicians are not?

 
at 4:13 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

is the bird flu killing us all yet? I thought we'd be dead by now given all the press coverage

 
at 4:13 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

John by the way..my brother and his wife Cindy went directly to the Bahamas but will end up in Brandenton? shortly. I asked him to look you up and say hello

 
at 4:19 PM Blogger Jack in Blue Ash said...

there are pros and cons to flu shots. Frankly, aside from protecting the elderly..all research would indicate its a crapshoot..not necessary

and in sports you have to consider the ethnicity of players..some should not have flu shots


Julie RN

 
at 4:23 PM Blogger Shawn Weaver said...

Um, the flu is viral. That's why there's a vaccine for it.

 
at 4:48 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right on, Shawn! It's real assuring to hear that the training staff hasn't figured that one out! No wonder some of these minor injuries last two to three months.

 
at 4:58 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

John,

Is there any chance this is simply a case of a few players having too much "fun" down in Florida? Thats why there's no shot for the condition.

 
at 5:45 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know much, but I know a little. The trainer is right (obviously he knows what he is talking about), because what these guys are getting are viruses other than the flu. The influenza virus will make a person bed-ridden for 10-14 days, not the 3-5 days of illness that most of these guys are getting sick with. Hope that helps.

 
at 6:07 PM Blogger Dude said...

The flue will leave you wishing you were dead for at least a week, what these guys have is just a virus.

The flu shots will only protect you from the actual flu strains covered by the shot, not "flu like" viruses.

 
at 6:35 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

A flu shot doesn't guarantee you won't get the flu. It is intended to help weaken the virus if you get it so you won't die.

 
at 7:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just read the reds signed a 16 year old outfielder from the Dominican Republic named Juan Duran. He is 6 6 and on a scale from 20- 80, his power is 80. Plus it says he has above-average speed. If you want to read about it go to http://redlegsbaseball.blogspot.com/2008/03/reds-outfox-everyone-by-signing-juan.html

 
at 7:25 PM Blogger Ankur Varma said...

Rob, team doctors and "normal" physicians are the same thing. You don't have to be an MD to understand how viruses work. And like most things in medicine, there are multiple approaches to treatment. Flu shots can help when you're young, or again when your immune system is weakened (in the elderly), but most viruses can develop resistance to vaccines, thus, there is no option but to let your body fight it off by itself. No big deal. And when these guys spend as much time with each other, in an environment in which bacteria, etc. thrive, someone's bound to get sick.

 
at 7:52 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

That Elder grammar is showing up in these blog posts. :)

 
at 9:15 AM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Avoid the clap, Jimmy Dugan.

 
at 9:46 AM Blogger wiseinsrq said...

i would think that given the current climate in baseball no one wants to be getting any kind of shot right now!

 
at 10:06 AM Blogger scoe44 said...

You know you have a point Wiseinsrq. I can see it now "no i swear it was just a flu shot not HGH"

 
at 12:06 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conflicting reports about effectiveness wouldn't preclude you from giving them. It's not like the reports say that giving the vaccine is harmful. At worst they're ineffective, at best they prevent the flu in some cases. The only harm is in the cost. Can the Reds afford the 20 bucks?

Quick back of the blog calculation: Let's say one player on the team gets sick with the flu and is out for a week of the season. The avg salary of the Reds is around 1.5 mil, they work about 30 weeks a year, so we're talking about a loss of $50,000 dollars. If it cost 20 bucks a shot for a 40 man roster, you have to prevent the flu just once in one player in 62 years to break even.

 
at 12:12 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

KYLE LOHSE

John, Do you hear anything about Kyle Lohse?

I read a rumor update that the Mets were looking, St Louis had dropped out, and Baltimore was interested, but not at the asking price.

I have nothing against Lohse, but I'm curious to see how his FA plays out. I can't see any club paying him more than a million per given that he had no value for a SP starved team like the Reds. At some point, clubs/owners have to get smart and stop paying marginal talent big money.

 
at 12:14 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

sounds like the booze flu to me

 
at 12:16 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

To watch Josh play this game is to see a freak of nature," said his new teammate, pitcher Jason Jennings. "And to pitch against him, which I did last season, is to see a hitter who makes you wonder how great he can be."

Believe me, the Rangers -- from the front office to his teammates -- are wondering.

Using caution wisely, no one with the team will publicly say what they are privately thinking:

Will a bona fide "star" emerge in Arlington this season?

Not that Mr. Fogerty had Josh Hamilton in mind, but can Chuck Morgan go ahead and cue up Centerfield at The Ballpark?

There is, however, a legitimate disclaimer in this camp that involves a prominent "if."

If he can stay on the field, in center field. That means stay both healthy and clean.

Another thing:

For whatever reason, the Cincinnati Reds traded Hamilton over the winter, despite some impressive yet limited stats last season, and despite Hamilton having quickly become a fan favorite and a feel-good story for seemingly rescuing his troubled life.

The Reds got pitcher Edinson Volquez for Hamilton; Volquez wasn't a serious contender for even the Rangers' rotation. In other words, the price wasn't high for Josh.

 
at 12:18 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

He is the nicest, most polite, most unassuming kid you will ever meet," he said."The fans will love him because he's such a friendly young man. The media will love him because you won't ever see an attitude with him. His teammates here, from what I hear, already love him, and that was also the case immediately in Cincinnati."

When Jerry was asked if the thought Hamilton was "finally clean" for good, he answered: "Nobody can say that for sure, not even Josh. But I know he's battling it hard; I know he trusts in Johnny, who loves him like a son."

On the field, the sacred Five Tools are obvious -- Hamilton can hit, hit for power, run, throw and go get 'em in center.

"I've never worked with anyone who can hit a baseball as far as Josh can," said Jaramillo, "and I've had some big bombers along the way. Just nothing like him."

Rangers catcher Gerald Laird was speaking of Hamilton on Tuesday, and he was stuck for the proper description. "I see him do something, and go, 'Wow.' About five times a day, I say, 'Wow.'"

Actually, Hamilton has caused a daily "wow" echo in this camp, mainly from his teammates. It's players reacting to skills they are seeing from a new player.

 
at 12:20 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Reds got pitcher Edinson Volquez for Hamilton; Volquez wasn't a serious contender for even the Rangers' rotation. In other words, the price wasn't high for Josh.

VERY INTERESTING

 
at 2:00 PM Anonymous Anonymous said...

From what we saw last year, Hamilton is a fantastic athlete. Frankly, I think heading to the AL is going to help him from the standpoint that it will take a couple months before the AL teams will all get to see him and be able to make adjustments. So, I would predict big numbers out of the gate from Hamilton before he comes back down to earth.

At the time of the transaction, both parties were trading commodities based primarily on potential – a “freakish” five-tool player on one side, a power arm on top the mound from the other.

If someone were to ask if you would rather have a guy who guarantees you a .300 ave, .375 obp, 30 hr, 100 rbi, and 20 stls a year for 5 years, but your team will be .500 during that time , or if you would take the guy who will have a 4.85 ERA the first year, 4.35 ERA the second, 3.95 ERA the third year, 3.75 ERA the fourth, and 3.50 ERA the fifth year, and know that every fifth day you have at a chance at winning the ballgame? Who would you take?

All of this is obviously speculation. Hamilton could hit 50 hr in ‘08 and go on to the hall of fame, or he could (God forbid) slide back in to some destructive habits and get kicked out of the league.

Voltron could win 18 games this year with a 3.76 ERA, or win 18 games over the next 5 years with a 6.73 ERA (understanding he probably wouldn’t be around 5 years if he had a 6.73 ERA – hopefully we wouldn’t actually try to reincarnate the corpse formally known as Jimmy Haynes).

I think that the majority here understand that the key cog to any successful regular and post season team is good pitching. IMO, krivsky preyed upon the Rangers’ lust for offense to pry away their top pitching prospect. At the time, the trade met the desires of both clubs – Texas wanting another hammer in the middle of their lineup and Cincy wanting to acquire cheap, young, GOOD pitching.

I’d absolutely roll the dice on a young stud pitcher, knowing that he could potentially have a greater positive impact on the team. Voltron might get injured or be an outright bust, but I’d rather take that chance than sit back and watch moon shots go into the stands while the team stays at or below .500. Offense aint the problem with this team folks.

 
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